Sicario2 - Tier 1 Can Henry stand in Arteta’s shoes with the amount of pressure, spotlight and expectations you have being the boss of one of the biggest clubs in Europe? I doubt it.

Hard to say, maybe if we gave him 3 seasons of failure to figure it out he might.

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Arteta and Cesc will have greater managerial careers than the Frenchman.

Cescs done nothing. But look we get it, you love Cesc, you love Mourinho and you hate on Henry, Saka and Odegaard.

      I think there's a general rule here.

      I don't really agree with everything Titi was saying anyway. He was going on about how we were not creating chances from open play even last year.. I recall us beating teams 5 or 6 to nothing for a while in the second half of the season last year. We created plenty of chanced from open play then. We just added set piece threat to our game (especially earlier this season, though it seems to have dried up a bit, but i think some of that has to do with Saka being out and not taking them from the right side).

        USArsenal whether you agree with Thierry or not, and I actually do, he's not saying anything outlandish that the fans themselves haven't been saying for a while.

        Fact of the matter is Thierry is arrogant, I agree with those who are saying this (even though they use it as a slight against him) but to me it's absolutely not something I have an issue with, nor do I even see it as a negative. All the greats are arrogant and think themselves the best and Thierry is no different. He can back up his arrogance with everything he's won and his importance to each and every team he's won with. He's our greatest ever player and the greatest player to have habe played in the Premiership. Honestly at times he looked like he was playing against youth team players.

        Now that arrogance might rub opposition fans and his haters up the wrong way, but I like it, and I loved it when he played for us. You could say he's been poor as a coach, he wasn't much of a mentor to Reyes etc. It's true to some extent. But those who are the best at what they do are not always the best and guiding and moulding people, and sometimes just can't understand why they can't do what comes to them so easily. That obsession they have with the game and constantly working to be the best doesn't always lend itself to being empathetic to less talented people even if they are trying their best. How many of the best coaches are former greats in their positions? Not as many as the great coaches who are great despite not being great players I'd imagine. Its a completely different skill you'd need to have to get the best out of others than it is to get the best out of yourself. Some have it, some don't.

        But PR or not, Thierry has always talked about us, whether negatively or positively, as if he is a fan, and I believe he genuinely cherished his time with us and the love we showed him. He always talks about the club as "us" and that's why I always have time for him, Wrighty and Keown because even whenever they're criticizing something about the team, if feels like a fan talking and wanting the best for the club, and not some snakey shit like you see when Fabregas used to try to beg it after going on strike to force a move to Barca.

        Say what you will about his coaching and his attitude towards Reyes but no one can convince me to entertain talk that chats shit about him.

            Big Willie whether you agree with Thierry or not, and I actually do, he's not saying anything outlandish that the fans themselves haven't been saying for a while.

            I didnt say i didnt agree with any of it, just not all of it. But I assume the rest of that was for the others who called him arrogant, etc. I didn't mention that at all.

                USArsenal it wasn't to you tbh, more so the people talking shit about him. Have whatever opinion you want about him, but he cares about the club and gave us everything he had while he was here.

                  Tam I also think it has to do with the player Saka. Henry has obviously taken him under his wing, and is protective of him, hence questioning the prevalence of (hamstring) injuries in the side, and our defense oriented or enhancing style of play (work rate required across the forward line, everyone bursting an artery to get behind the ball to keep shape).

                  If we want to continue like this (high work rate demanded from forward players) we need a bigger squad. With quality players to spell Saka and Kai. Can't afford to bring in the likes of Sterling anymore, as I think his presence and the lack of trust Arteta has justifiably shown in him has contributed to our overuse of Saka/Kai/Martinelli. Gabriel Jesus was just a freak accident from what I consider a really dumb tackle attempt.

                    I used to be overly bothered by the treatment of Reyes, but it's also a myopic talking point that neglects to mention how much Henry did to lift other players. The standards he demonstrated personally and in turn set for the team led to an array of players hitting highs they never would have without Henry.

                    Too much time is spent questioning how he interacted with Reyes while neglecting his role on improving other players and the squad.

                    It's interesting, obviously I loved Thierry's time with us but I've never felt connected to him in the way I have certain players who came before and some who have come after. I just find him a little cold, a little aloof (arguably, that is of course what made him great). Though I obviously revelled in having him at the club for the time we had him..

                    I suspect though, in Thierry's criticism, there is a desire for exactly the same thing as what Arteta wants and that is an Arsenal team, recruited, trained and playing to the highest possible standards week in week out.. It's just that he's in a pundit's chair and Arteta in the manager's. I think the pair of them would spend hours talking football with each other given the chance, they're both football nerds (I mean this as the highest compliment).

                    Thierry can say and do whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned. He's earned that right and then some. That is all. Goodnight.

                      I appreciate both as men, but I maintain neither Henry nor Cesc has what it takes to lead a dressing room at the top level.

                      Henry has a lifetime of leading by example and despising the weaknesses of others. I've never seen any player drag his teammates so often. But leadership of a group of mixed talents requires consistency and optimism as well as brilliance.

                      Cesc simply isn't smart, savvy or tough enough for the very top level.

                      Anyway, I'm still in the spot I was years ago when Cesc whinged his way over to Barcelona: I'll never hate him as much for that as I despised Van Persie. As for Henry, he is a charming genius who has done right by Arsenal.

                        Burnwinter I disagree on Cesc, I think he has all the makings of a top manager, and I actually think he’ll manage Arsenal one day. Great Spanish midfielders educated at La Masia know football, and when you hear him talk about coaching it’s clear he has the mentality and his own ideas. And I think he really wants to come here and win a title with Arsenal.

                        And for the record, he has plenty of toughness — he carried the club for years as a very young man, when Wenger was going full youth and employing a bunch of jokers as fitness coaches and physios.

                            CPM And for the record, he has plenty of toughness — he carried the club for years as a very young man

                            I hear you. I think this can all be true.

                            It's an interpolation, but I see Cesc as a "type A" approval-seeking personality. I reason that's why his quasi-paternal relationship with Wenger caused him such issues, as did the lack of sustained validation he received at Barcelona.

                            I have no particular doubts about his football knowledge, though he doesn't come across as hugely bright in interviews or stories about his private life. But he's highly and diversely experienced in the sport and made lots of great individual decisions on the pitch.

                            My prediction though: he'll have real trouble if he ends up managing a club of which the dressing room features galactico level players. This is a guy who won't deal well with any unruly stars undermining him, or even with the need to discipline players more generally.

                            Anyway, that's obviously just bullshit theorising but that's what I see in him.

                                RowJimmy Sure, Titi didn't make it as a manager. But as a studio analyst he is much, much more incisive than almost anyone else I see.

                                Agreed. Except perhaps when it comes to standards he struggles with context. Like criticising Odegaard not creating chances despite the injuries when "it's the same team". It's not the same team Titi.

                                That run by Richy that led to Ode's assist - we haven't had that in a while. Saka does it all the time, ditto Gabimart.

                                  Burnwinter you underestimate Cesc. For a 17 year old to come in from a foreign country and replace an Arsenal legend (Vieria) takes some doing.

                                  Cesc was running rings around galacticos in the bernabu at 18. He also scored decisive penalties for Spain and was our youngest ever captain at 21. That doesn’t happen for no reason.

                                  He def has something about him and if you watch him on tv as a pundit not many come close. Man is articulating the game in his second language putting some native pundits to shame.

                                  He is a leader and his career to date shows you everything you need to know and as per our bet he will go to the top as a manager. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is our manager post Arteta.