• The Arsenal

  • Arsenal - Aston Villa, Today, In about 3 and a half hours.

Qwiss agree last night’s back four wasn’t great. I keep seeing a lot of people certain that a set up with Kiwior would’ve been better without much evidence.

What I do think is fair to say is that Arsenal fans often underestimate the impact of the loss of tentpole players on the entire team. Injuries to Saka, Odegaard and Saliba specifically have been very hurtful, in addition to all the other stuff.
Watching yesterday’s game, it was apparent that Rice kept dropping into the spaces that Saliba typically occupies so that he could collect the ball and set up offense. That kind of thing messes up spacing, our distance to goal, ability to progress etc. we had big big issues without Saliba that Kiwior wasn’t going to solve.

      But in playing Partey at RB we created 2 problems , it's like Liverpool playing Trent at CB because Konate got injured and Gravenberch at RB. You would look at Slot and wonder what on earth he was smoking

        • Qwiss

        • Post #311
        • Edited

        Claudius usual Arteta can do no wrong stuff from you. Sometimes he gets it wrong. That doesn't mean the sky is falling down or that we need to sack him. There is ample evidence that moving Partey from midfield to right back doesn't work.

            • Qwiss

            • Post #312
            • Edited

            GooneriC all while leaving Quansah on the bench. Although at least Slot didn't sign these players. Arteta signed and then wouldn't sell Kiwior yet he wont use him when needed.

                Qwiss yeah and I find comments on the squad not being big enough. If the suggestion is Arteta hasn't got what he wanted I don't think that's credible as it seems to me has been very much in charge of the transfer strategy so the limitations and lack of depth are all on him. He needs to take accountability for the way we've got it wrong this season or how can you have any hope he's capable of changing.

                Agree on the talking about luck, there is plenty of talking about it now but when things go well we bet rarely come out and say that we had good luck and that boosted us. The previous two seasons we avoided significant injuries to our key players alongside very high level performances from most of the squad which gave us the circumstances to be in the title race but nobody really says we were just really lucky. If you can't win when the luck is with you then that's a pretty bad sign.

                Football doesn't work in a planned manner so the idea that we have a project and we'll get the benefit at x time doesn't really occur. You get the opportunities when the things fall for you and the 2 previous seasons we couldn't make the most of it when we got it. We also didn't sufficiently prepare for if the variance went against us Arteta gambled too much on his 11-13 players repeating their form when for many of the forwards there were major red flags about them and what they were likely to achieve consistently.

                  • Panda

                  • Post #314
                  • Edited

                  Arsenal have dropped 12 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, their most in a single campaign since 2019-20 (21).

                  2019-20 was before Arteta...so we really do have a major issue this season with being unable to hold onto our leads which we haven't seen before under Arteta.

                  I can't even remember the last time we kept a clean sheet tbh. Was it against Everton? Who never score anyway. No it was when we scraped to our 1 nil against Ipswich lol.

                  I know we've all been moaning about the lack of/quality of forwards but the frontline did their job yesterday and somehow we still didn't win...

                  And the stat against the top half of the table so far this season is ugly wtf is this lol. Miracle we are 2nd.

                    Panda I know we've all been moaning about the lack of/quality of forwards but the frontline did their job yesterday and somehow we still didn't win...

                    Worst thing is they were half chances and that was probably all they created aside from that one shot from Tielemans right after he scored. Only reason those chances occur is because we have Timber play CB having played RB all season and as a result isn't in the correct position for both goals (actually I don't even know where he was for the 2nd goal as I did not see him in the clips at the time) and having Partey at RB who completely went to sleep back there. The second goal doesn't happen if Timber is in his correct position as he'd be marking Watkins and the first goal wouldn't have happened if we had any CB/RB structure.

                    This is right before the cross. We have Partey slow to get to the man crossing the ball, then Timber thinking he's still a RB pushes wide to the corner of our box leaving Gabriel to shift to RCB and because there are 3 players running into the box we end up with MLS pushing to CB and Merino having to run into the box (though he should have got Tielemans because he had a head start on him before the cross came in). All structural issues that stem from having Partey RB and Timber at RCB.

                        • Panda

                        • Post #316

                        Big Willie God you are so right.

                        Arteta is a fool. What was it he said when he kept playing Holding and we wanted White at CB with Gabriel (as they had a pretty good partnership the season before) and whoever at RB.

                        Something along the lines of not wanting to make too many changes to usual positions...yet he does this shit because he'd rather have Merino on the pitch than Kiwior.

                          Qwiss I don’t think Arteta “can do no wrong”. He makes mistakes. The main thing I think is an issue obviously is inability to get a forward to support Saka. Other than that, I haven’t seen diabolical errors this season.

                          But seriously, every few days I come in here and everything is incredibly dire and negative. And then I look at the table and we are second despite all the issues we’ve faced this season. Somehow Arteta who is constantly bumbling and fumbling remains ahead of City, Chelsea, United, Spurs etc. But he can’t coach, can’t pick a team, and has wasted all his transfer money. So what is exactly is happening - are we surviving by an act of God?

                          Last point- on Saliba as a rock. We’ve had the guy out 3x this season. We’ve conceded 2 goals each time. There is a massive game management risk when he’s gone.

                              Claudius Last point- on Saliba as a rock. We’ve had the guy out 3x this season. We’ve conceded 2 goals each time. There is a massive game management risk when he’s gone.

                              Actually Saliba missed 2 PL games this season. But more than Saliba being out, what I think is more notable in both those games are they were games we shifted our normal RB to RCB (White vs Liverpool and Timber vs Villa), and had Partey moved to RB from the 6, had Rice move to 6 from the 8 and bring Merino in to the 8 from the bench. A bunch of shifting that results in a defender being lost and an extra midfielder being brought in. Both those games had those exact same players start the game.

                              Even more notable than all of that though is that any game Partey plays at RB both weakens us there as he does not see the game from there as he should, whilst also weakening us in the 6. We won just 1 game he started at RB this season drawing 4 and losing 1. It's a clear downgrade having him there to our game, both defensively and in keeping control in the middle.

                                Qwiss not now, but 2 years ago, and we haven't built on it, we've sat on it

                                  Claudius But he can’t coach, can’t pick a team, and has wasted all his transfer money

                                  See this is exactly what I mean. People make a fair criticism of his selection with the defence yesterday and this is your reaction.

                                      Gurgen
                                      Mine one is and still Arsenal 1-1 Brighton. Something told me this ain’t going to be our season.

                                        • Tam

                                        • Post #323

                                        Gurgen that clip is the football version of the blue/black or white/gold dress photo. You watch it a couple of times and focus on his arm, and you think it comes off the arm. Watch a few times focused on his ribs, and it seems to come off his torso.

                                            Tam that's exactly what I was thinking watching it in real time, minus the blue black dress bit of course (never saw any way it could possibly blue white or gold 😆). Like it doesn't feel absolutely definitive without a doubt for me, at least from that angle. Haven't seen any videos from behind which would show whether there was a clear deflection of the hand.

                                              Claudius But seriously, every few days I come in here and everything is incredibly dire and negative.

                                              I hear you buddy, for what it's worth. This is not reflective of everyone but there are plenty of folk (witnessed quite a few at the game last night) who conflate their disappointment at a result with everyone and everything being shit. It's quite draining to see all the time. Things can be worse than we'd like without the whole club being in 'crisis'.

                                                  Don Pacifico
                                                  It shows those that doubted the summer window, doubted the fact we would get countless chances at trophies and that this ‘good will’ would last forever were right.

                                                  It’s a crisis when you are effectively out of 3 trophies by Jan when you were supposed to challenge for the title and/or win trophies after the last 2 years. Having what looks like a back to back shit transfer window esp after all our injuries adds fuel to the fire. It is all relative.

                                                  Manage your time on here if you think it will be all roses. There are a lot of pissed off gooners and rightly so.

                                                      Qwiss I think all Claudius is saying is whilst we're clearly not where we want to be right now, Arteta has done excellently to have us second despite the red cards; despite the injuries; despite the fact we can't catch a break on VAR and, yes; a sub optimal summer transfer window.

                                                      And you don't really ever see that fact acknowledged in a lot of the posting here. I can't really remember a season like this one, where something seems to go against us in every game and for all that, we are looking down on all but one Premier League team.

                                                      I don't think Arteta should be, or is, above criticism - but that criticism really should take account of the circumstances this season has played out in.

                                                          RocktheCasbah
                                                          How much of it is Arteta’s doing?

                                                          He signed Kai. He sold ESR and put Nelson on loan.

                                                          Arteta has fallen out with approx 50 percent of his signings which is a huge red flag.

                                                          Kiowir hasn’t seen a sniff of action since his mistake v Palace away a month ago, that was an Arteta £30m signing.

                                                          It’s Arteta who over played Saka resulting in him getting injured.

                                                          It’s Arteta who after 4 years doesn’t have a proper Ode or Saka backup.

                                                          It’s Arteta who plays Partey at right back.

                                                          It’s Arteta who splashes cash on an injury prone Cala who we didn’t really need or signing his countryman Merino who is not made for the Prem.

                                                          It’s Arteta spending money on Kai who is hit and miss at best.

                                                          You can talk about injuries and bad luck all you want but most of this season is on Arteta. The buck stops with the manager. Excuses FC.