Arsenal - Aston Villa, Today, In about 3 and a half hours. : Page 17 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal - Aston Villa, Today, In about 3 and a half hours.

awooga83

Qwiss yeah and I find comments on the squad not being big enough. If the suggestion is Arteta hasn't got what he wanted I don't think that's credible as it seems to me has been very much in charge of the transfer strategy so the limitations and lack of depth are all on him. He needs to take accountability for the way we've got it wrong this season or how can you have any hope he's capable of changing.

Agree on the talking about luck, there is plenty of talking about it now but when things go well we bet rarely come out and say that we had good luck and that boosted us. The previous two seasons we avoided significant injuries to our key players alongside very high level performances from most of the squad which gave us the circumstances to be in the title race but nobody really says we were just really lucky. If you can't win when the luck is with you then that's a pretty bad sign.

Football doesn't work in a planned manner so the idea that we have a project and we'll get the benefit at x time doesn't really occur. You get the opportunities when the things fall for you and the 2 previous seasons we couldn't make the most of it when we got it. We also didn't sufficiently prepare for if the variance went against us Arteta gambled too much on his 11-13 players repeating their form when for many of the forwards there were major red flags about them and what they were likely to achieve consistently.

Panda

Arsenal have dropped 12 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, their most in a single campaign since 2019-20 (21).

2019-20 was before Arteta...so we really do have a major issue this season with being unable to hold onto our leads which we haven't seen before under Arteta.

I can't even remember the last time we kept a clean sheet tbh. Was it against Everton? Who never score anyway. No it was when we scraped to our 1 nil against Ipswich lol.

I know we've all been moaning about the lack of/quality of forwards but the frontline did their job yesterday and somehow we still didn't win...

And the stat against the top half of the table so far this season is ugly wtf is this lol. Miracle we are 2nd.

Big Willie

Panda I know we've all been moaning about the lack of/quality of forwards but the frontline did their job yesterday and somehow we still didn't win...

Worst thing is they were half chances and that was probably all they created aside from that one shot from Tielemans right after he scored. Only reason those chances occur is because we have Timber play CB having played RB all season and as a result isn't in the correct position for both goals (actually I don't even know where he was for the 2nd goal as I did not see him in the clips at the time) and having Partey at RB who completely went to sleep back there. The second goal doesn't happen if Timber is in his correct position as he'd be marking Watkins and the first goal wouldn't have happened if we had any CB/RB structure.

This is right before the cross. We have Partey slow to get to the man crossing the ball, then Timber thinking he's still a RB pushes wide to the corner of our box leaving Gabriel to shift to RCB and because there are 3 players running into the box we end up with MLS pushing to CB and Merino having to run into the box (though he should have got Tielemans because he had a head start on him before the cross came in). All structural issues that stem from having Partey RB and Timber at RCB.

Panda

Big Willie God you are so right.

Arteta is a fool. What was it he said when he kept playing Holding and we wanted White at CB with Gabriel (as they had a pretty good partnership the season before) and whoever at RB.

Something along the lines of not wanting to make too many changes to usual positions...yet he does this shit because he'd rather have Merino on the pitch than Kiwior.

Claudius

Qwiss I don’t think Arteta “can do no wrong”. He makes mistakes. The main thing I think is an issue obviously is inability to get a forward to support Saka. Other than that, I haven’t seen diabolical errors this season.

But seriously, every few days I come in here and everything is incredibly dire and negative. And then I look at the table and we are second despite all the issues we’ve faced this season. Somehow Arteta who is constantly bumbling and fumbling remains ahead of City, Chelsea, United, Spurs etc. But he can’t coach, can’t pick a team, and has wasted all his transfer money. So what is exactly is happening - are we surviving by an act of God?

Last point- on Saliba as a rock. We’ve had the guy out 3x this season. We’ve conceded 2 goals each time. There is a massive game management risk when he’s gone.

Big Willie

Claudius Last point- on Saliba as a rock. We’ve had the guy out 3x this season. We’ve conceded 2 goals each time. There is a massive game management risk when he’s gone.

Actually Saliba missed 2 PL games this season. But more than Saliba being out, what I think is more notable in both those games are they were games we shifted our normal RB to RCB (White vs Liverpool and Timber vs Villa), and had Partey moved to RB from the 6, had Rice move to 6 from the 8 and bring Merino in to the 8 from the bench. A bunch of shifting that results in a defender being lost and an extra midfielder being brought in. Both those games had those exact same players start the game.

Even more notable than all of that though is that any game Partey plays at RB both weakens us there as he does not see the game from there as he should, whilst also weakening us in the 6. We won just 1 game he started at RB this season drawing 4 and losing 1. It's a clear downgrade having him there to our game, both defensively and in keeping control in the middle.

Qwiss

Claudius But he can’t coach, can’t pick a team, and has wasted all his transfer money

See this is exactly what I mean. People make a fair criticism of his selection with the defence yesterday and this is your reaction.

Don Pacifico

Claudius But seriously, every few days I come in here and everything is incredibly dire and negative.

I hear you buddy, for what it's worth. This is not reflective of everyone but there are plenty of folk (witnessed quite a few at the game last night) who conflate their disappointment at a result with everyone and everything being shit. It's quite draining to see all the time. Things can be worse than we'd like without the whole club being in 'crisis'.

Coombs

Qwiss not now, but 2 years ago, and we haven't built on it, we've sat on it

Gurgen

Gazza M you’re right.. Most painful result of the season for me.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Gurgen
Mine one is and still Arsenal 1-1 Brighton. Something told me this ain’t going to be our season.

Tam

Gurgen that clip is the football version of the blue/black or white/gold dress photo. You watch it a couple of times and focus on his arm, and you think it comes off the arm. Watch a few times focused on his ribs, and it seems to come off his torso.

RocktheCasbah

Qwiss I think all Claudius is saying is whilst we're clearly not where we want to be right now, Arteta has done excellently to have us second despite the red cards; despite the injuries; despite the fact we can't catch a break on VAR and, yes; a sub optimal summer transfer window.

And you don't really ever see that fact acknowledged in a lot of the posting here. I can't really remember a season like this one, where something seems to go against us in every game and for all that, we are looking down on all but one Premier League team.

I don't think Arteta should be, or is, above criticism - but that criticism really should take account of the circumstances this season has played out in.

Big Willie

Tam that's exactly what I was thinking watching it in real time, minus the blue black dress bit of course (never saw any way it could possibly blue white or gold 😆). Like it doesn't feel absolutely definitive without a doubt for me, at least from that angle. Haven't seen any videos from behind which would show whether there was a clear deflection of the hand.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico
It shows those that doubted the summer window, doubted the fact we would get countless chances at trophies and that this ‘good will’ would last forever were right.

It’s a crisis when you are effectively out of 3 trophies by Jan when you were supposed to challenge for the title and/or win trophies after the last 2 years. Having what looks like a back to back shit transfer window esp after all our injuries adds fuel to the fire. It is all relative.

Manage your time on here if you think it will be all roses. There are a lot of pissed off gooners and rightly so.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 It’s a crisis when you are effectively out of 3 trophies by Jan when you were supposed to challenge for the title and/or win trophies after the last 2 years.

The way you define crises, I'd worry that life must seem a very traumatic place for you mate. Things haven't gone as well as we'd like but there's still a lot to feel positive about the health/state of the club and I see no reason why we can't go again next season and beyond. Yes, it feels like a massive missed opportunity but I can accept that and move on.

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Manage your time on here if you think it will be all roses. There are a lot of pissed off gooners and rightly so.

Being disappointed doesn't excuse the baseless/unbalanced anger of some (by no means all) directed at every aspect of the club. Reading that is pretty tedious. Frankly, the vitriol I heard from some fans last night was not only pathetic but completely disproportionate to the situation. You'd think this was the Wenger era of infinite 4th place finishes and no title challenges.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah
How much of it is Arteta’s doing?

He signed Kai. He sold ESR and put Nelson on loan.

Arteta has fallen out with approx 50 percent of his signings which is a huge red flag.

Kiowir hasn’t seen a sniff of action since his mistake v Palace away a month ago, that was an Arteta £30m signing.

It’s Arteta who over played Saka resulting in him getting injured.

It’s Arteta who after 4 years doesn’t have a proper Ode or Saka backup.

It’s Arteta who plays Partey at right back.

It’s Arteta who splashes cash on an injury prone Cala who we didn’t really need or signing his countryman Merino who is not made for the Prem.

It’s Arteta spending money on Kai who is hit and miss at best.

You can talk about injuries and bad luck all you want but most of this season is on Arteta. The buck stops with the manager. Excuses FC.

Tam

RocktheCasbah see that’s the thing, he’s had many faults either manifest or evidence themselves this season, yet he’s still being described as doing excellently.

Yes we’re second. And granted there have been so many things done against us this year. However we’re effectively 9 points off the pace, and in any other year we’d be third. The positive picture you’re painting is greatly helped by the fact Man City have had an unprecedented collapse.

Too much is made of comparing us to others and previous seasons. Look at where we are and how we are performing. Poor league performances and disastrous cup games.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah we've had a lot of poor results lately so naturally people are going to dig into the reasons for that. A lot of people thought that selection was off on Saturday, a lot of people were disappointed by our summer business, so obviously we are going to talk about these 2 issues when we blow a 2 goal lead that's probably our last chance to really challenge for the title. Like I say we aren't calling for his head but it's not really a week where people are going to be singing his praises.

There's been some silly over the top praise for Arteta at times too. Claims this teams better than the invincibles and I regularly see Wenger compared unfavorably to Arteta (which is ludicrous btw).

Artetas done a good job the last 2 seasons but people want to see him learn from his mistakes and improve to a point where we actually win trophies. I don't understand why that's so shocking.

RocktheCasbah

Tam I don't really know how to respond to this. You're probably right, at least to a certain degree, but I just can't relate to this level of unhappiness with the manager or team. And I say that as someone who's put his hand in his pocket to go and watch them quite a lot this season. The only game I've been really disappointed by was the Newcastle cup game & even that we should have won.

Yeah, we fucked the summer - but until I know the manager bears 100% responsibility for that, I'm not prepared to hang him for it. If you know differently, please do enlighten me.

And as for our position being made rosey by City's collapse, would it not also be fair to say that were Liverpool not on pace for a 90 point season, something nobody saw coming and (for the record not something I think they'll do) there would be a lot less angst on here?

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah The only game I've been really disappointed by was the Newcastle cup game & even that we should have won

You weren't disappointed in the FA cup game? I see all this bad luck and poor refs excuses but we had the better of it in that match winning a penalty for a clear dive.

banduan

Don Pacifico Frankly, the vitriol I heard from some fans last night was not only pathetic but completely disproportionate to the situation.

even here:
being angry at Odegard for not busting a gut. The same Odegaard that's been pressing and leading the press the whole match.
being angry at Kai for the temerity of having arms.

That's why I avoid this place whenever we have a bad result. Even twitter is solace.

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