• The Arsenal

  • New Year New Game: Brentford vs Arsenal 17:30 UK Time.

Claudius difference is Arteta eventually built towards a contender. Late stage Wenger and Emery were entirely static

Emery was undermined by Raul and co, had players forced on him, and was mocked by both the players and the media. It was a pretty shit time at the club, from top to bottom. Sven was brought in but quickly pushed out by Gazidiz, Gazidis left soon after, Raul was appointed only to be dismissed shortly after Arteta arrived. The players were toxic, (at least that was the line used as to why Arteta had to clear them out).

Emery managed to secure a 5th place finish, but was sacked after a poor start to the 2019/2020 season. Given that we missed out on 4th by a single point and reached the Europa League final in his only full season, it's debatable whether his dismissal was truly warranted. The truth is, we can't know what Emery could have achieved with more time and support.

Similarly, if it was reasonable to sack Emery after that rough start in 2019/2020, then the same logic could have applied to sacking Arteta after a poor 2020/2021 start, which saw us finish 8th. Or after the team's collapse at the end of 2021/2022, yet Arteta was given even more backing. The subsequent two seasons were competitive and enjoyable, but predicting success after such rough starts seemed as unlikely as predicting Emery could have turned things around during that early 2019/2020 slump.

As for Arsène, despite all the criticism he faced towards the end for compromising on his principles and becoming increasingly combative and irritated with the fans and the mounting pressure, he still delivered just two seasons outside the top 4 in over 20+ years (one 5th place and one 6th place). This was alsp a period with significant issues in the background, like the power struggle between Kroenke and Usmanov, and Gazidis increasingly taking control of the club, effectively sidelining and eventually sacking Arsene.

Arsene may have been past it, but towards the end he was like someone who saw the end coming. Looking back it kind of explains why he was less willing to take the long term approach he used to have in terms of squad building and player development, and ended up turning exclusively to experienced (shit) guys and being more pragmatic with his football in order to get top 4 and save himself for another season.

So yeah, sorry to rehash some of these old discussions, but thing are how they are now because of hindsight. Had he been sacked back then he'd be an anecdote ibto our history like Emery. Difference is one was backed and given patience when the other wasn't. After that it's hard to say for certain whether Emery would have managed to get us in the CL, whether he would have got us challenging for the PL, and whether he would have even won us both of those trophies because we can't predict the future. All we can say for cerain is he did not get that opportunity to fix the squad and get his own players in.

Edit: Long post above. Don't click "details" unless you're sitting on the shitter and have a few mins 😆

TLDR ** @Claudius, you're right, late stage Arsene and Emery's second season start were not good enough, but neither was Arteta's second season start. Similarly you're, Arteta did eventually build towards us being a contender (key word being eventually) after a lot of patience and a shit ton of money, something Emery was never given. No one knows what Emery would have built with the same backing Arteta had**

      If Emery won the Europa League, he'd probably still be our manager. Arteta won the FA Cup, which is why he kept his job.

        daredevil If Emery won the Europa League, he'd probably still be our manager. Arteta won the FA Cup, which is why he kept his job.

        I get that granted him some goodwill. Then again no one would have been talking about how it was a huge mistake to sack Arteta if we did back then. Only reason it's possible to know now that the patience was justified is with hindsight.

        My point is that we don't know what Emery would have done with the time and backing afforded to Arteta after a similarly shitty run ended with him being sacked. It's possible he would have left us nowhere nere the title. It's also possible that he could have taken us over the line.

            Big Willie there’s no shit ton of money. Go look at what all our rivals are spending. We are basically keeping up re: combined transfer and salary spend.

              • Coombs

              • Post #13
              • Edited

              Big Willie My point is that we don't know what Emery would have done with the time and backing afforded to Arteta after a similarly shitty run ended with him being sacked.

              This doesn't tell the whole story. Emery was not the leader Arteta has been, even in Mikel's more challenging moments. Unai's personal life was a mess, and he was in over his head when it came to the expectations of an Arsenal manager, maybe even a PL manager. It's just a different culture. He's admitted as much in interviews, and he's worked hard to develop that side of his persona. I like Unai, but I don't think giving him more time or money was the answer. The fact that we'll never know is kind of irrelevant, because we'll never know about anything that never happened.

                Also, I was horrified by some of the supposed signings Emery was rumoured to want us to make.

                  Emery was never going to succeed, being the first manager post-Wenger. Just look at ManU since Ferguson left. They have yet to find one. We got lucky and only went through one before we installed Arteta. (and don't mention Slot, he was handed a stacked team and Klopp was great, but he was not at Pool anywhere near as long as Wenger or Ferguson)

                  Emery had a track record of not working out due to the deficiencies of his man management, despite showing tactical brilliance, at his clubs prior to Arsenal such as PSG.

                  I'm honestly glad for Emery he appears to have grown in stature and that he's loved at Villa, but I'm convinced he could never have achieved what Arteta has at Arsenal, due to many different circumstances including the timing of his tenure with us.

                  Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert Also, I was horrified by some of the supposed signings Emery was rumoured to want us to make.

                  True, but like you said, they were only rumours. That said the likes of Zaha were certainlu not my cup of tea. Then again I was also against some of the signings Arteta was rumoured to be making that eventually did not materialise.

                    Put a tenner on Havertz scoring today

                    • goon

                    • Post #19

                    Big Willie

                    Honestly whether this is right or wrong, I find the need to point out that our current manager had a tough spell a little opposition fanbasey.

                        Raya, Timber, Saliba, Gabriel, Calafiori, Partey, Merino, Odegaard, Nwaneri, Jesus, Martinelli.

                        So I put money on Havertz scoring and he is not even in the squad lol.
                        Nwaneri starts.
                        Also I might have missed something, do you know why Arteta was asked so many questions in the press conference before the game about Trossard and his attitude? Arteta said he is a bit of a moaner. Did he do something?

                          • est

                          • Post #23

                          That's about as strong a team as we could put out. Hopefully it'll be enough to get the job done.

                          Exciting lineup. I think we show them a thing or two

                          • naz likes this.

                          • naz

                          • Post #26

                          Love the lineup. Let's see what they do

                          • Gazza M

                          • Post #27
                          • Edited

                          nwaneri on the wing finally. I've been eager to see him there.

                          glad to see calafiori back as well

                          Why is Havertz not even in the team?