Coombs this is what annoys me at the moment. Its gone like political chat when you try to discuss corruption and bias in refereeing. Everyone wants to equate it to some grand conspiracy where the refs are all getting paper bags full of cash in some dark car park after the game. The reality is these refs are being paid by the same people who own City but its all above board and sanctioned by PGMOL. The reality is the refs overwhelmingly come from the same geographical region and look the same. This is an old boys club where they pick people like themselves and allow visible financial incentivising because its good for themselves rather than the league or the game as a whole.

      Mirth there should be a complete separation of match day refs and var officials for a load of reasons but its pretty obvious the PGMOL don't want to answer to anyone else.

        Qwiss agree with a lot of this. I think the framing that PGMOL is out of sync with the game is correct. We have a multi billion dollar game, left in the care of a barely professional group of referees who have too much power and very little regulation. That disconnect is the issue for me.
        On VAR, I am fine with PGMOL running it - just run it better. After all, these are still refereeing decisions, so the analysts need to at least have a refereeing certification in addition to being able to review video quickly. Set some standards for resolution time and clarify what goes to VAR versus not.

        I really don’t think there’s some anti-Arsenal conspiracy, but the incompetence in the game right now is making a lot of fans think that the referees are acting maliciously

            Claudius I was going to make a similar point that failings in the governance of the organisation is totally fair. Referees from limited variety of backgrounds as well totally valid that could all be impacting the outcomes.

            But the idea that any of that is just aimed at Arsenal I think is not credible. That has become the talking point online from fans (not necessarily here) and in podcasts that they specifically hate arsenal and everything that is happening is controlled by this all powerful group just to target us.

            It's a comforting narrative running through most conspiracy thinking that things would be great if only for the big bad x but ignores that totally mundane things that aren't fully in anyone's control can lead to outcomes you don't like and absolves you of any agency as well.

            I think that discourse hurts the valid reflections being raised here because it allows people to dismiss all issues if you frame it in the it's all designed because they just hate us and nobody else gets this treatment.

              Claudius when @awooga83 said it wasn't any better in the 90s it made me realise that the English game has completely left the refs behind. The clubs are giant corps,, the players earn millions, everything is modern and business like but the refs aren't all that different from the 80s and 90s. This stuff with them on Sky etc is their way of trying to catch up. And new technology like VAR is doomed to fail in their hands. It's like handing a synthesiser to medievil lute player.

                  Qwiss I've seen comments in this light saying you might need to pay refs more and do that to try to attract the best referees from across the world. I'm the same way every other aspect of the game has gone.

                    Qwiss Drawing parallels between the Premier league and modern day Britain is a fun thought exercise. The Premier league has a significant soft power advantage and provide an exceptional service but is pressured into taking on investment from increasingly dubious sources to remain in front of European peers. Meanwhile, the Premier league is deeply envious of American institutions and their ability to raise money and wish they could do the same. Nevertheless they've continued to marginalise the local support and price out those who used to believe a season ticket should be achievable for the average working class. This is then regulated by an old boys club who can't seem to avoid conflicts of interest and are stuck in the 80s.

                      Prepare for joy at the weekend...

                      It is insane how many times this guy is involved with our matches. And I think it's these things, these micro aggressions, that nobody else notices cos they don't pay attention in the way we do, which really cause us to think so poorly of the PGMOL.

                        i'd go all nasty tabloid on these mofos if i had the kroenkes resources: PIs digging through trash, tapped phones, hacked devices, etc etc.

                        Qwiss Exactly. It's in broad daylight and people are looking for some kind of Hollywood terrorist plot.

                          RocktheCasbah This prick of a Liverpool fan—the same one who got Saliba sent off and cost us two points versus Liverpool in the past fortnight—has been appointed to officiate yet another one of our matches in order to teach us a lesson.

                          The pattern has been steady and blatant, the idea it's not being coordinated via some anti-Arsenal group chat or something similar is implausible, and it's looking less and less likely by the day.

                            RocktheCasbah the question I have generally it's how does this play out across the league. Without the context of seeing how the other referees are being allocated it's hard to know to what extent it is or isn't significant.

                            I tried looking briefly and I think if you look at Anthony Taylor he's been involved in refereeing Liverpool 3 times so far this season. I didn't know where to look to check VAR assignment but that suggests that it might not be so unusual to get that kind of number.

                            I don't know if the claim about no other officials is just meant to be about us or was suggesting looking across the league but if the latter it doesn't seem to stand up to scrutiny.

                              9 days later

                              Someone could do the data work but it's just so obvious that they're targeting us. No other team in European top divisions gets players sent off in such an absurd manner. It's a growing collection of "infractions" that no one else will ever see red for.

                              The next one is Raya 2nd yellow for time wasting. Who knows, maybe they'll outdo themselves and give him two yellows for time wasting on the same goalkick. Had no choice, you know?

                              It's interesting to me that everyone can see Howard Webb's entire deal is controlling the narrative in the media, so why don't they think he's also invested in controlling the narrative on the pitch? They are the same impulse, fundamentally. If he cared about refereeing games properly, why would he start a talk show? These things are incongruent, because good refereeing generates 0 engagement.

                                Imagine the outcome if that Sommer punch on Merino yesterday was Raya on Palmer this weekend. I'm almost surprised they didn't review it and send Merino off for headbutting the keeper's hands.

                                Last season European refs let’s us off with the exact same handball offense that led to a penalty against Villa last night.

                                Coombs

                                This is it, if you view it purely from an entertainment product perspective, bad refereeing increases engagement. Emotion sells and there's nothing quite like a riled up fanbase that becomes more invested than ever.

                                  Supposedly we are paranoid for thinking they’re corrupt and have bias…

                                  You can imagine how much they hate Arteta if he feels like that about Klopp.