awooga83 you don't just lose Nketiah, you still need to get that body in the squad from somewhere. Nketiah played 1,400 minutes for a strained frontline and gave us 7 G+A.
We basically would've had to lose Nketiah on the free, and then go spend another £20m or more on another player who could give us that output. Whatever, happens, you still need to pay salaries etc.
And then there is the FFP/FSR impact he has with a sale which is significant. You don't just release an Nketiah
Claudius I don't think you need to replace him in the squad. Worse case scenario you play Trossard and even Martinelli there, and they would get that stat line and more. Eddie scored in the first game of the season, then vs Fulham(very important goal), then he went on 7(started 6 of them) game non scoring run, he then bagged that hattrick, then he went on a 15 game non scoring(only started 3 to be fair) until the end of the season.
Just get as much as you can from him, save the wages and move on. He brings nothing, lets be honest.
HomeSteak how many minutes was he getting in those games? Eddies stats aren't amazing but in the league he outscored Jesus in around 2/3s of his minutes. One less than Martinelli in half his minutes. You can't just get rid of players like Eddie and not replace them. Martinelli missed big chunks of last season and Trossard was already covering midfield and striker on top of his left wing duties. There is a reason clubs are interested in Eddie for pretty big money. You don't just let that value walk out the door.
Qwiss Trossard is bad in the middle, hit and miss on the wing and at his best as a striker. He can replace what ever Eddie is giving us, easy.
Again, Eddie contributed with goals in 3 games. He scored 2 goals in august, and the hattrick in October and nothing else. He went on a 15 game run of not scoring and a 7 game run of not scoring, in the same season. We will not miss him even if we don't buy anyone, never.
Once Havertz made his move to striker...it was over for him at Arsenal, in the last 16 games of the season he got 45 minutes of game time, all together, and was not used for 10 games, including the last 7 in a row. Arteta is done with him.
Nobody is saying give him out for free, but I'm ok with selling even if we do not bring anyone in, and I'm pretty sure Arteta is as well. If he stays here, he gets 200 minutes of game time next year, tops.
In terms of contribution all 3 you mentioned were bad.
Eddie got 1072 minutes and 5 goals - 2 assists, Jesus 1483 4 goals and 5 assists and Martinelli 2029, 6 goals and 4 assists. The thing is, Martinelli and Jesus had the worst year of their careers and Eddie...well, he had his best ever, and he was still worse then them.
£25million for Nketiah would be a good deal for all parties. I'd back him to score 10-15 goals for Bournemouth next season.
I like that we are holding out on the price we believe Nketiah can fetch. Hope it doesn't backfire on us.
HomeSteak he then bagged that hattrick, then he went on a 15 game non scoring(only started 3 to be fair) until the end of the season.
With every contract there's the benefit of hindsight. Some come good (let's say Trossard who cost £27m and has 18 goals and 12 assists in 62 appearances). Some like Nketiah don't. All our renewals of proper starters have been excellent value for money compared to what we pay name signings like Jesus and Havertz.
It's generally good to punt on players we already have since there's no £27m fee. £27m is comparable to a fringe player's whole five year contract. We just need to better de-risk the scale and timing of contracts offered to fringe players.
In Nketiah's case we got the gamble about right. He's rarely played due to our other options, but it seems he'll move on at a fee.
In Ramsdale's case it was foolish to re-sign him on wages boosted from £60k per week to £85k per week in May 2023, just weeks before we signed Raya and benched him.
Ramsdale is making 50% more than Raya or Ederson without playing. The money we lay out to keep Ramsdale off the pitch heightens the impression he's a second tier talent, and puts us at the mercy of lowball approaches.
It appears that due to issues like Ramsdale's inertia we're now stuck holding out for sales. Likely because getting Merino in at a fair price isn't worth ending up snookered by PSR putting a €50m ceiling on our nett spend in summer 2025.
HomeSteak Once Havertz made his move to striker.
So what?!! Havertz has been striker for the last 6 months. What was your plan before that? you say play Trossard there, fine then you have to spend on a winger. Whatever way you slice it someone would have had to come in. You'd be letting him go for less than his worth, being stuck needing a replacement and ended up with someone else not quite a starter who poses the same issue. That people say we should have let Reiss go at the same team is even more myopic as we'd have been losing wing and striker cover. You need a squad.
Most of all though there is zero financial argument for not giving Eddie that contract. We could have sold him last week for £25m. Thats loads of profit.
Qwiss I assume the plan was Havertz at 8, that did not work. The plan in attack was to play Eddie, that did not work, as Eddie was dropped and never seen again, as he was not good enough.
Yes, play Trossard there, he is better, why is that so hard to imagine lol? And yeah, I agree, we needed a winger last summer, not Eddie in the squad, we still need a winger this summer, and Eddie not in the squad.
Again, not saying let him go for less then he is worth. We could not have sold him last week for 25, as you see..by you know, not selling him last week for 25 mil. We asked for 25-30, they said no.
I agree also with what we did, the whole when there are 2 years left, sell or extend. But don't give them huge wages and then banish them to the bench, then you do not sell well. I think we will sell Eddie this summer, but it will be for around 15-20, what we would have gotten last year as well.
And with Reiss is hard to make the argument, that you are trying to make since...well, we re-signed him, gave him 200 minutes in a full season, half of that on the left wing, and Arteta played both Jesus and Vieira before him on the right, and of course...played injured Saka more then him lol.
HomeSteak Yes, play Trossard there, he is better, why is that so hard to imagine lol?
I never said that was hard to imagine. We've seen it. I said selling players or letting them walk like you want requires new signings.
HomeSteak Again, not saying let him go for less then he is worth.
Its exactly what you are saying when you complain that we gave him a new deal. The only other options at that point are a cut price sale or let him walk.
HomeSteak I agree also with what we did, the whole when there are 2 years left, sell or extend. But don't give them huge wages and then banish them to the bench, then you do not sell well.
Eddie wasn't banished to the bench. He's played his fair share.
HomeSteak And with Reiss is hard to make the argument, that you are trying to make since..
I didn't make an argument for Reiss. Didn't rate him when we gave him that deal. He's worth a lot less than Eddie.
Honestly, there are some arguments that make absolutely sense, and one of those is questioning why we gave contracts to Nelson and Nketiah when they were about to walk on a free.
daredevil I assume there's a, rather key, "no" missing from that reply..? ;-)
Fwiw, I agree. It would have been daft to let Eddie go on a free when he was 22 years old and still potential. Hopefully, Arsenal will further prove that folly by getting a good fee for him in the next few weeks.
Even selling him for £15m would be better than letting him go on a free, not worried about that. Although we should be able to get 20m+.
It's more about practices than individuals. We need to cut back what we offer the fringe a bit. Take Smith Rowe: due to injury trouble he was only on about £70k. Given his immense talent, finding him a fair move wasn't hard.
Here's Fulham's current wage table, give or take (Palhinha's off):
https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/fulham/
A year ago we handed Nelson a weekly wage of £100k per week, which is ahead of every Fulham player. Even at West Ham who've been sniffing round, Nelson would be about top five, on par with an effective specialist like Ward-Prowse. Nelson's on what Xhaka's on at Leverkusen.
We don't build the profile of an Arsenal fringe player after his early 20s, we bench him. So the smooth liquidation of any fringe player's paper "retained value" requires paying him wages in line with what he'd be offered by the type of club that would actually want to sign him right now, today.
daredevil one of those is questioning why we gave contracts to Nelson and Nketiah when they were about to walk on a free.
It's not about the contracts but the wages. By signing Nelson up at a wage that made future moves tricky, we instantly degraded his true "retained value" by millions and jacked up our overheads.
If we can't negotiate any meaner, a decent compromise would be building appearance bonuses a bit deeper into fringe player contracts.
the mistake started when we allowed an academy player to be in the last year of his contract. they should have been sold the previous year. when they are basically free agents even if another club is offering them 60-70k a week with a sign on bonus, we have to compete on the total value of the deal if we don't want to lose an asset that gives us greater flexibility to massage the financial rules. so we end up paying them 100k a week.
Burnwinter the problem there was not offering the players contracts earlier. I think we need to separate the Nelson and Nketiah deals too. Eddies been used quite a bit and has done a lot more in his career than Nelson to date. It would have been insane to let Eddie walk out the door and when a player is in the position he was in sometimes you need to pay over the odds to retain him. At the time he was second choice striker too, we didn't have Havertz or Trossard when he signed that deal.
I mean I think when we offered both of those players their deals it was not a great decision with the contracts. Eddie is a championship level striker for be but nowhere near good enough for Arsenal even when he had his purple patch. I think if we are offering those deals the wages should be lower and if they don't want to accept them then sell them. I don't think we would have lost anything by him not being there and he was barely used in the second part of the season so it's hard to feel he was required.
To the point about Nelson and Eddie, if you make the case about Eddie I still question was that even what contributed to the thinking given the deal offered to Nelson because they happend at the same time and you would imagine had similar assesment applied to them so if it was this informed view in Eddie what happend with Nelson contract?
Qwiss No issue with Nketiah's deal, we called it roughly right. And Ramsdale's problem situation is an anomalous fuckup rather than the outcome of coherent policy.
However, it's dumb Nelson's on the same money as Palhinha or Ward-Prowse. It's bad business: you don't retain value in an asset you'll struggle to sell and can't use.
i think the agent played a blinder, simple. he caught us delaying those kids' contracts at a time when we were doing a lot of squad turnover, and he took advantage.
in the end though, re-signing was still the better path given FSR.
