Arsenal Outs 2024: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal Outs 2024

Don Pacifico

Qwiss yeah, I've seen the goals but looks like he may be benefitting from his physique in that age group. Agree that it's a shame not see if we can harness that into something more.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico definitely benefiting from his physique but plenty of strikers at first team level also benefit from that. Its not like he's going to get smaller.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss no, but the opposition will get bigger!

Qwiss

Don Pacifico yeah but they'll have said the same about Haaland. Like I say he could JET but he could keep dominating. Its still not great to lose the guys who are dominating the youth game.

Clrnc

The last person to score so many goals at youth level didn't really fare super well when it went to adult level. Dortmund's Moukouko. I mean he did score at adult level but hardly setting the world alight.

Burnwinter

Qwiss Its a shame we don't get to see how it unfolds here.

If we don't ever blood youth, youth won't stick around. That's why those Champions League minutes quite a few people scoffed about wouldn't have been a waste.

Meatwad

i'm all for players moving if they aren't getting a chance, but they're leaving for clubs that will just loan them out and treat them the same way we do. bayern isn't going to give him a pathway to the first team that's different from us. he'll be the next zirkee. omari hutchinson left us to do the same things with chelsea, unless he and his advisors felt arsenal were incapable of sending him on loan to ipswitch. i guess it comes down to money and getting some in case it doesn't work out for you like everyone is predicting.

Clrnc

Meatwad It's a win win for Omari though. Got better wage there, and now is going to get a big move abroad. Win win for Chelsea too, got a player free and will now cash in great money in terms of FFP since he's counted as HG

Burnwinter

Meatwad they're leaving for clubs that will just loan them out and treat them the same way we do

You've got to think about these things with the mindset of a frustrated teenager. There's a big difference between the club that's already let you down and the club you can still fantasise will be special.

Put it another way, we'd all have been sweating placing a bet on this kid getting to play five senior minutes next season. So off he goes.

Qwiss

Clrnc exactly. Had Hutchinson in mind with this. Even if Obi Martin isn't good enough for us he'll probably have value. Losing kids ds you've put all that time and effort into isn't good.

goon

If we’re seriously suggesting a 16 year old is leaving because he hasn’t got enough mins…

Youth players will leave, it happens at every club, increasingly so. These youngsters think they’ve made it before they’ve even kicked a size 5 ball because some agent has signed them up aged 10.

Burnwinter

goon If we’re seriously suggesting a 16 year old is leaving because he hasn’t got enough mins…

No, but it's fair to think Obi-Martin may be leaving because we're not giving senior minutes to any of our 18 or 19 year olds either.

To look at it another way, why else would Obi-Martin leave?

Opportunity and perceived ability are a chicken or egg question for the youngsters who make it, but it still only starts to get answered at this level via a determinate share in the finite resource of playing time.

Arsenal has a stacked squad and we've been marooning players as gifted as Smith Rowe, so players won't be expecting much if they're definitely not England internationals with dozens of Premier League goals.

Burnwinter

goon These youngsters think they’ve made it before they’ve even kicked a size 5 ball because some agent has signed them up aged 10.

It's mostly the opposite I reckon: they leave because they know they haven't made it, and they're regularly hearing ghost stories about the JETs, Frimpongs and Zelalems from the people around them.

goon

Burnwinter

If you're a top talent in the academy and I'd have thought you'd look up to guys like Saka, Eddie, ESR, Nelson and Balogun rather than those guys, especially if you only joined in 2022.

And if game time is your concern at 16, that argument definitely goes out the window when you go and join a club like Chelsea or Bayern.

Coombs

Burnwinter you give them far too much credit

Burnwinter

goon

I'm a simple soul. If a footballer leaves Arsenal having turned down a normal deal, I assume he's doing it for career advantage: money, playing opportunities or coaching and development.

His coach is Jack Wilshere and he's tearing it up in the U18 Premier League so I doubt being used in his preferred position, or looked after in that regard is bothering him.

Bayern may have offered Obi-Martin something good. Today (12 June) he passes the 16 year, 6 month age threshold to sign a professional contract in the Bundesliga. The minimum is 17 in England I think.

Beyond that, a list of role models of which 4 out of 5 names have been frozen out of the first XI is no selling point. Our squad is stacked and Obi-Martin plays competitive football with 30-odd youngsters, one (1) of whom made one (1) senior appearance last season.

I would guess at zero (0) chance of Obi-Martin playing a senior match next season so we've got nothing on Bayern or Chelsea there.

Claudius For a club near the top, I think it’s less easy to make space for a 16 or 17 year old.

This is very true. That's why when three boys travel to a CL dead rubber it might not hurt to give them a story about how great it felt running out to take back to the U18 dressing room.

Qwiss

goon And if game time is your concern at 16, that argument definitely goes out the window when you go and join a club like Chelsea or Bayern.

I find this to be the most concerning part of it. If these guys were doing a Charlie Patino or Balogun and going to play first team football I'd get it, that makes perfect sense. I don't know what's going or why we are losing young players more often but like I said above I find the trend worrying.

QuincyAbeyie

ESR, Nelson And Nketiah should've already left for their own sake tbh.

HomeSteak

QuincyAbeyie For sure. Eddie made his debut under Wenger. He was never a starter ...you would think he would have left by now.

goon

That's another conversation, but if you believe they've been held back it's not because they didn't leave at 16. They all made it into first team football, have England caps and are destined to play at PL level. I'd say for any academy product that's not a bad scenario.

Claudius

I’m with Goon. Omari Hutchinson left us to go to Chelsea. He’s enjoying life at Ipswich at age 20. And Chelsea were a midtable club this season - the type of context where Saka, Martinelli, Nelson, Nketiah, ESR, Willock, etc., were able to build up minutes under Emery and Arteta.

For a club near the top, I think it’s less easy to make space for a 16 or 17 year old. When you’re chasing perfection, you consistently need Saka or Rice level performances to get your 90.

Think about everybody’s favorite Arsenal team - The Invincibles. Nobody under 22 had more than 700 minutes. Reyes played half a season. But otherwise we had Clichy, Hoyte, Bentley - all really hot prospects doing nothing. Same the year before

Bernard Woolley

If you don't mind a counterpoint, I would disagree here. There are ways to show people that they are valued without necessarily having to measure that by total minutes played. As Burnwinter says, it's about the attitude we show towards youngsters coming through the ranks - maybe that's by playing the last 15 minutes of games that we have closed out (like the string of 5s and 6s we hit in the early part of 2024) or the dead CL rubbers or initial rounds of cup games, etc. Maybe it's as simple as training regularly with the first team or making their family feel at home with the club and so on. I don't claim to know exactly what hits the spot, but there has to be some effort to show these kids that there is a path to the first team. Even if we don't think most kids will amount to much, it's worth making the effort to keep at least some of them around, who will eventually be monetizable assets. There may be the odd player or two who has the confidence to say they will make it regardless of whoever is in their path, but the vast majority need some nurturing.

Clrnc

Bernard Woolley you absolutely have a point and it's right. But this guy we are talking about is someone just turned 16 lol. If he leaves it's not our fault

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