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No, the flaw is armchair fans thinking they know better.
Why let facts like that get in the way?
That's why my list of comparable attributes didn't include intelligence.
Nwanners!
Aren't all fans armchair fans, unless they don't have any opinion of their own except for "whatever happens is always the right decision, because I am in no position to think otherwise"?
Clive Palmer very good on Nwaneri on this week's ArsenalVision pod.
RocktheCasbah oooh I'm gonna listen to it tucked up in bed shortly.
daredevil No, the flaw is armchair fans thinking they know better.
Nope. Let's be clear, Arteta doesn't give a fuck about load management when there are other factors he deems more important. Don't ask me. Ask Ben White!
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Load management for a 17yr old who cramped up in both league cup games is a little different than a seasoned pro who plays through hamstring injuries.
And of course it’s just one consideration of many. If you carry the team on your back every week then it’s pretty natural that you’ll be asked to do more than if you’re a kid out the academy.
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I'd imagine Nwaneri being 17 and White being 27 has something to do with the different approaches being taken.
Would have been a lot of pressure. He's 17. Bringing him in replace Odegaard (and Saka - he was hurt too) is a huge risk. These are world class players You could do damage to his confidence if he doesn't perform well, increased risk of getting clattered by some caveman if he is isolated as the focal point of our attack, and probably lots of other factors one has to consider. You don't take that sort of risk unless you absolutely have to. I'm sure the temptation must have been there, however if we are a serious club, there was probably already a plan for optimally ramping him up into the first team prior to the start of the season. As much as possible you try to stick to that plan. That's what he's talking about when he's saying cement and bricks. There's things the kid has to learn, habits he has to break, ideas he has to imbibe. He's a baller, no doubt. But he needs to learn how to ball with the big boys at the top level consistently. No rush. Him playing often is unlikely to be what truly defines us this season.
And if it is, and it's deserved minutes, I'm extremely happy to be wrong: as this would mean he's earned his way into the first team, and we'll be seeing him do really special stuff as the season goes on. Either way, he's announced himself to the Arsenal fan base, and maybe even some non Arsenal fans are starting to notice. We have a special talent on our hands. Let's enjoy his development.
Thanks mates, no doubt without your help I'd be incapable of understanding this incredibly obvious point.
Meanwhile @daredevil you seem to have missed mine, which is that Ben White's situation demonstrates that managing player workloads isn't something that is always at the forefront of Arteta's concerns and he isn't always right when it comes to load management (note the qualification) because he's got other factors to be worried about.
You guys can be superbly obtuse. We're talking about Mikel Arteta, a football manager with a well-earned reputation for burning players out and practising a low rate of rotation.
flobaba Bringing him in replace Odegaard (and Saka - he was hurt too) is a huge risk.
No one has suggested that he replace anyone.
Suggesting Nwaneri should preferentially get half an hour to relieve (not replace) our starters is all that's been said. Nwaneri's shown himself to a highly effective, difference-making option off the bench this season. His body's young but he can handle half an hour of competitive football once or twice a week.
Forest was just further evidence we could've seen more of him.
Right, no body is saying that, but If those two were healthy, and we were top or closer to top of the league, there would likely be much less of a demand / need to see more of Nwaneri, outside of situations where we are cruising.
Chelsea 1–1, 2–2 Liverpool, Bournemouth 2–0, 1–1 Brighton. These are probably the league matches where we've dropped points this season and it could've been beneficial to see more of Nwaneri on the pitch. Brighton being a bit tough of course due to Rice's made-up red card.
And in many matches we didn't even create much chances and dont look like scoring till Nwaneri came on and we immediately looked a different team. There's no 2 ways about it.
flobaba Right, no body is saying that, but If those two were healthy, and we were top or closer to top of the league, there would likely be much less of a demand / need to see more of Nwaneri, outside of situations where we are cruising.
Funnily enough, I think if both are healthy, we see more of Nwaneri. I said this a few weeks ago. That our injuries have been detrimental to Nwaneri. You want a safe environment for a kid. One where he can benefit from a stable team that’s operating well. Think of Fabregas. He played with a full invincible squad around him. It creates a platform for the kid to express themselves and a safety net for mistakes. So I suspect we see more of the guy because the conditions will be more enabling.
Clrnc Nwaneri came on and we immediately looked a different team
This is it. He's consistently looked dynamic and dangerous when subbed on. We might have a handful more points if he'd been used more on these occasions.
"The science is in" and he must now be used more. The load management and protection argument sounds pretty bogus when we're talking about 30 minutes a week.
As for demanding Nwaneri wins us matches being unfair, I doubt anyone would view it that way. I do agree throwing him on as 10 men in the second half versus City would've been rather dumb.
From a results perspective I'd rather we hold aspirations for a kid who looks like exploding than make justified demands of Sterling who doesn't look like stepping up.
No need to get snappy. No one, including Arteta, has said it's in the forefront. Technically it was second on his list.
If winning matches is first, he should play. If it isn't, then I guess it's fine that he doesn't.
Burnwinter This is it. He's consistently looked dynamic and dangerous when subbed on. We might have a handful more points if he'd been used more on these occasions.
....protection argument sounds pretty bogus when we're talking about 30 minutes a week.
Personally these two comments are contradictory to me. The fact that fans (myself included) want to use a 17yr old to turn things around for us tells me expectations are sky high.
He came on with 30 mins to go against Newcastle (before the likes of Zinchenko, Partey, Jesus, Sterling etc) and struggled to do anything bar a late turn and shot on goal from 30 yards. That's probably far more likely to be the norm unless he's genuinely a generational world class talent, because it's only in the remit of a very select few to be able to have that sort of extended impact on games.
QuincyAbeyie throwback to when people say getting 4th is not as important as blooding Saliba in French ligue
QuincyAbeyie.
@RocktheCasbah recommended Clive Palmer’s podcast from yesterday. I just took a listen now. And Clive, an amateur coach, makes a lot of sense. Basically says the following
- Arteta has integrated Nwaneri into the senior team for the last two years now. So he knows him well.
- Each time Nwaneri has started, he’s come off with cramps. He’s started one game and finished, and it was against League 1 team (which makes sense given the physical gap between league 1 and premier league players)
- Clive also says he thinks having Saka and Odegaard around to take care of Nwaneri will give more minutes due to foundation they create. He said young players’ confidence is fragile and you don’t want to expose them to a chaotic team.
- etc.
The arguments he laid out make much more sense than “choosing not to play Nwaneri is choosing not to win”