2024 US Election: Page 42 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

2024 US Election

Gazza M

Burnwinter trump was cruising to re-election in 2020 until covid hit imo. Biden would've gotten romney'd. but at the end of the day, that's part and parcel of being the commander in chief. if he'd behaved like a responsible wartime general during covid he could've still won in 2020. if another major crisis pops off in the next 4 years, his worst instincts will be exposed again

Burnwinter

Gazza M if another major crisis pops off in the next 4 years, his worst instincts will be exposed again

We've never had evidence Trump is any good at being President. People keep telling me Trump's got a much more organised operation around him now, but surely it'll be a messy four years. If "Project 2025" goes ahead in whatever form it'll be weird and damaging.

Claudius

Daz I used the branding analogy simply because it is similar. If your position isn’t clear to a constituency, you fall through the cracks. In South Africa, we have dozens of parties. Most of the parties have a very clear message. And they excite people to get out to vote based on that.

Good brands work the same way. Clear positioning. Not trying to be everything to everyone. That’s what you are when you go after Dick Cheney and hope to also capture young progressives. It’s very dissonant

Daz

Claudius the billionaires are the least of your worries. They’ve already won and can go chill. They just needed a president in power who will protect the status quo because democrats were starting to challenge their market and financial power.

Sorry, but this is just totally wrong. There is no such thing as the 'status quo' when it comes to these billionaire capitalists - they are constantly looking for ways to extend their wealth, power and political influence. That is, by definition, not a status quo and its dangerous to think otherwise. This is exactly how you end up with a billionaire populist like Trump.

Gazza M

Daz they've gorged off the status quo of both parties since Reagan, but its still not enough. now they're overthrowing the status quo to go after the big game they've been head-hunting for generations, which is public goods. and people voted for it

Big Willie

Murica Fuck Yeah

jones

Mirth the world isn't a pleasant place to be right now. There's room for things to get worse where you and I live but things are in the shitter in most of the world right now

Burnwinter

Kel Varnsen Could never work without massive macroeconomic reforms. Take the post Brexit UK, migrants now come in from Africa instead of Schengen and these migrants work in the health sector in large numbers, in jobs that are overworked and underpaid.

I reckon there's Buckley's chance Trump ends "illegal immigration", "builds a wall" or goes in to prevent employers from hiring any of these workers ... and if that's the case, it's not immigration but resentful racist rhetoric and fantasy deciding elections.

Gurgen

How are people who live on land stolen from the indigenous population just a few hundred years ago complaining about “illegal” immigration anyway? There’s no-one more illegal than they are.

Daz

Gurgen
Yes it's a sick irony that is unfortunately lost on a large proportion (and potentially a majority) of the Australian population too

Kel Varnsen

Gurgen

Because that is human nature. Most people don't like to see their culture change.

https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-transplant

QuincyAbeyie

Should've chosen Bernie in 2020.

JazzG

Gazza M I don't want to get into conspiracy theories but how the fuck are there so many votes in 2020 compared to this year and 2016....

Burnwinter Agree with this. Making Biden the nominee really hammered home the Democrat dynasty effect, and the deeper and more obvious his cognitive decline, the greater the respective contempt for the public. It was making me angry and I'm not even in the United States.

Even if you go back to 2016 a lot of disgruntled Democrats who thought Bernie got screwed over. If Hilary had won the primary fair and square I think they would have respected the result but clearly the DNC didn't want to take that risk.

Claudius

JazzG it’s called disinterest with what’s on offer.
Also remember that we were in covid in 2020. Much easier to vote than when you need to go work at McDonald’s and voting is only 6am to 6pm

invisibleman18

Claudius can you not vote early or by post there? Don't know how it works there but here voting is open for weeks before the day so there's no need to wait for election day if you're already decided or working on the day or whatever. Election day is always a Saturday here too so less people have the can't get out of work problem. If early voting is a thing then "I was working on the day" just seems an excuse for not bothering.

Sicario2

Asterix

I was reading this in an opinion piece in the Sydney Morning Herald - this snippet seems entirely plausible to me.

"In her landmark work, The Politics of Resentment, political scientist Katherine Cramer described how she took regular part in a wide range of community groups in her home state of Wisconsin, one of the swing states in deciding elections and part of the great swath of left-behind, fly-over America.

When Cramer asks groups of Trump supporters how they expect he will improve their lives, they are surprised at the question, she reports. They don’t expect Trump to be the vehicle for their improvement but for their disenchantment and anger.

When Trump said last year, “For those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution”, he spoke for those voters. They have given up on their system, feeling abandoned by smug big-city elites, but have confidence in Trump to offend the elites and damage their system."

I think a lot of people vote based on emotion rather than reason. Why else would someone on minimum wage vote for a billionaire who wants only to enrich himself.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/if-george-washington-was-the-father-of-america-s-democracy-donald-trump-is-its-undertaker-20241106-p5koch.html

Gazza M

Asterix a good chunk of the trump vote just to destroy anything establishment/mainstream. that's a message that resonates because it simple and appealing to disaffected voters, and people don't really think beyond who they're handing the keys to in a post-establishment world.

Kel Varnsen

Asterix

These investigations are weird. They are similar to post-election analyses in country after country. "Why did so many voters not vote for the centre-left/moderate party?", as if that was the default position and any divergence must be explained by some very specific trend or incident.

Burnwinter

Gazza M

on a more shallow note, (because i hate most of these fuckers) it's galling to me that a rogues gallery of unfunny Gen X chitlin circuit comedians (led by rogan) butthurt intellectuals (led by peterson) remedial bros (led by the Paul brothers) and outright criminals (led by andrew tate) helped swing gen z men so far to the right. that network of 2000 right wing russia-funded influencers the DOJ uncovered took too long to unearth. Merrick garland moved like a republican plant for the last 4 years.

jones

Gazza M not buying anything the DOJ sells, too convenient too blame Russians for everything. Not saying there aren't powerful right wing interests emanating from there but they're negligible compared to those based in the US and Europe.

Those charlatans you listed are scum and deserve a good beating but if it hadn't been them someone else would've stepped up. Societies that are geared towards accumulation of wealth and nothing else will always end up here.

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