2024 US Election: Page 25 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

2024 US Election

Burnwinter

mdgoonah41 Well, according to Du Bois, at the time of abolition Lincoln carefully considered the transportation of all the freed slaves to Latin America, but abandoned the plan early when it became apparent it was a logistical fantasy ...

Claudius

Burnwinter in context, it’s better than owning slaves. Would like to dig deeper into it. If he was reviled by the idea of free black men or just found it politically untenable to have freed slaves in the union. 200 years later they’re eating the cats the after all

flobaba

mdgoonah41

How would Kamala pay for this?

HomeSteak

flobaba shes gonna make Trump pay for it.

Gazza M

flobaba I'd need to see detailed policy proposal ls from her. and more interviews. until such time, I'm undecided. signed, a Pennsylvania voter, probably

Burnwinter

Claudius Yeah it's not a pot shot at Lincoln, I don't think Abe was a bad guy, especially as far as parliamentarians go—quite the opposite really. The commentary in question is from Du Bois's BLACK RECONSTRUCTION which I read a few years back. It's an insanely dense book, but it's full of moments such as that.

If anything it's more a comment on the failed history of grand plans to transport large numbers of people—you could compare Musk's Mars plans. Such projects often either can't be executed, or are economically stupid.

mdgoonah41

Gazza M lol. i listened to a really good podcast yesterday with a state legislator from PA and she basically admitted that only about 3% of people in PA are undecided, and for a lot of them, their indecision is whether they are going to actually vote, not who they'd vote for. i think for people on the hard left, its a question of whether you can hold your nose to vote against trump (which is what i'll do) instead of actually being excited to vote for harris.

from where we are right now, the most logical outcome of this race is that dems win back the house narrowly, win the white house, and lose the senate. if that happens, its going to be 4 years of absolutely nothing happening in this country. kind of hard to get pumped for that.

Claudius

Gazza M
https://kamalaharris.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Policy-Book-Economic-Opportunity.pdf

Meatwad

nothing happening isn't the worse thing in the world. i just wish it was the republicans keeping the house and the dems the senate and not the other way around though because she will need the senate for judicial appointments and that's where the most damage (depending on which side you're on) is done in this country: the courts. hopefully they get the senate in 2026.

mdgoonah41

Meatwad i agree but the senate map is dicey this cycle. if tester cant hold his seat in montana, thats pretty much the ball game, since manchin's seat is certainly going to flip.

2026 is better, since dems wont have to defend as many seats, but its still not great. osoff is up in GA and peters in michigan. in terms of pickup opportunities, collins in maine and tillis in NC are maybe the best bets, but they have strong incumbency on their side.

its really hard to see how dems are ever going to get 60 senate seats again. if they arent willing to nuke the filibuster, im not sure what the point of any of this is. terrible system. i hate it.

mdgoonah41

Claudius lol i think he was being sarcastic.

the big joke now is that the media elites keep pestering harris to explain in excruciating detail every single strand of her policy goals while allowing trump to say the most insane, unhinged nonsense every day with zero explanation or relationship to reality.

Claudius

mdgoonah41 I see. Yeah. Anyone who says they want her policy isn’t interested in the policy. The other guy is talking about rapists and dog eaters.

flobaba

mdgoonah41 not true. Trump gets challenged and fact checked every time as well.

It would not be prudent to allow Kamala get away with empty or unachievable promises just because “hey look at Trump”. Simple question. You’re going to give all first time homebuyers $25K. Where is it going to come from? Why is that an “excruciating detail” for which we can expect no answers?

mdgoonah41

flobaba how does anything get paid for? she'll raise taxes on wealthy people and possibly raise the corporate tax rate. whatever her plan is and how she will pay for it is preferable to ethnic cleansing.

flobaba

mdgoonah41
Lol. It doesn't work this way. Has it ever? Anyway it's clear you're not interested in specifics, but just think how many people will suddenly become interested in becoming "new homebuyers". And how much that will cost. Social security as it is, is due to run out in a decade, and that hasn't been addressed. The US deficit right now is what ? 1.8Trillion? And then that gets added to it. You think the consequences won't be felt soon?

No one is saying Trump is the answer. I'm saying Kamala can't get a free ride and zero accountability just because, oh look - Trump and Republicans.

Gazza M

this was cathartic to watch. this lady comes across as an unrepentant super karen. ofcourse trump is on record praising her 'work'

mdgoonah41

flobaba its just not a real discussion worth having, imo. if she wins and dems have a trifecta, they wont be able to bypass the filibuster in the senate, which means she will get one chance per year to pass legislation (through reconciliation) and so anything big and grand and very partisan is likely just going to be a fantasy. there is no need for me to understand how she will pass a $25k incentive for homebuyers because im 98% sure it wont even be a possibility. im voting against accelerated fascism, racism, and for the outside chance that dems hold the senate and one of the right wing lunatics on the supreme court dies in the next 4 years and she gets to name a replacement. nothing more, nothing less. the system we have is garbage, but i cant change it.

RowJimmy

mdgoonah41
Also basis on my vote. But I live in NY, so doesn't matter as much. You're in PA, right?

Gazza M

mdgoonah41 feels like she's overly boosting the Cheney's support. I get the political optics, but she's been name dropping dick Cheney a little too much. he's still one of the most unpopular figures in politics, and given he was the main figurehead of the administration that stole Florida to win in 2000, there's a touch of irony there as well. the post 9/11 years leading into the 2008 gfc are the years that torched much of America's trust in their institutions and media, and paved the way for the charlatan/demagogue era we see now. I'm not sure how much being all loved up with the Cheney's helps her when her slogan is 'we're not going back'. need to see more tim walz doing media like at the start of the campaign. people like him the more they see of him.

flobaba

Ah okay. At least that confirms that you're clear eyed about the reality of the situation regardless of what plans or "concepts of a plan" either party/candidate proposes.

mdgoonah41

RowJimmy yep. i listened to a podcast yesterday with a PA state rep and she commented how a bunch of state house races literally came down to less than 100 votes during the last cycle and the special elections. casey is leading in the US senate race but its too close for comfort. if PA was not a swing state and there were no important races or ballot initiatives, id probably just not vote in this cycle because im pretty disenchanted right now. but i live in one of the few places in the country where my vote actually matters.

trump and vance are talking about denaturalization now and stripping citizenship for immigrants. shit like that is so much more dangerous than whether or not harris plans to raise the corporate tax rate to 24% of 27% to pay for things that likely wont make it through congress.

Coombs

Yea, I've got it easy living in Colorado.

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