mdgoonah41 You can go online and find plenty of comments about Republicans families. Trumps kids were never off limits for terminally online twitter freaks.

The DNC has only solidified that the partys are barely different. The Democrats are sending Obama out to do dick jokes about Trump. The "we go high" facade has been abandoned as they sink right down to Trumps level. Joe Biden is doing "there are good people on both sides" with a genocide. Every day the illusion of choice in US politics becomes more and more clear.

If you vote for Trump you are supporting genocide. If you vote for Kamala you are supporting genocide.

      Qwiss on international policy, you could make that argument. domestically however, for people actually living there, i genuinely dont see how you can both sides it. there are real issues on the line, that disproportionately impact women and minority groups. maga is the stalking horse for a combo platter of broligarchy, ethnonationalism, handmaidens tale/Jim crow era rollbacks.

          Gazza M those are issues to be resolved after the US stops supplying and funding the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent children.

            Qwiss a dick innuendo is so different from the things that Trump is saying. Democrats are faulty, but the current Republicans are racist mysognists and a danger to people's freedoms.

                Claudius both partys promise freedom but in reality are a danger to it. The US locks up more people than any other western nation. Disproportionately minorities. Kamala was a big part of that herself. Globally there is no bigger threat to freedom than the US and that happens under Democrats and Republicans.

                I watched the DNC crowd walk past Palestinian supporters and plug their ears so they didn't have to listen. It was a perfect representation of what they are. The DNC allowed family members of Israeli hostages on stage but refused to allow any Palestinians on. We know what they are.

                I'll say it again. If you vote for Kamala or Trump you are supporting genocide, you are facilitating genocide, you are for genocide.

                  im going to vote for harris because i want my girlfriend to be able to get health care and i want my LGBTQ friends to not get erased from existence. i do not support genocide in any way, and if me, a white collar worker who has zero connection or influence over the federal government had any opportunity to change US foreign policy, id surely do it.

                  its easy to comment how people in another country should vote when you dont actually have to live there or exist there. the two party system we have is garbage. again, since that system is not going to be overhauled between now and november, i unfortunately have to vote for the person who will likely do less damage on the whole. it sucks. but protesting the election and allowing trump 4 more years (i live in the state that will likely swing the election) seems like the worse option to me.

                    It's really not fair to pretend this is all so simple, nor is it reasonable to expect people to put their own interests and those of their loved ones aside to take a futile moral stance. I won't vote for Kamala or most democrats, but those who do are not for genocide by default. That's not how voting works.

                      Coombs yeah it's a wild way to view voting. its like the 'all trump voters are racist bigots' line of thinking which has been so derided over the years. in reality, all people might just be hoping for is domestic policies that improve and don't actively hinder their lives. people sitting the whole thing out based on a moral stance didn't work out so well in 2016, and had long lasting impacts on the judiciary that would hamper policy for decades. these are the tangible things that are on the line that the average American voter cant 'put on hold' until a conflict thousands of miles away is resolved

                        mdgoonah41 and i want my LGBTQ friends to not get erased from existence.

                        Gay people in the US aren't going to be exterminated if Trump gets in. Real people in Palestine are being exterminated right now.

                        This is what boils my blood. The complete overstating of some imagined future in America vs the reality for Palestinians now.

                            Qwiss so let me ask you a question, and hopefully you'll provide me with a good faith response. what should i do? i should not vote in november, since both parties are evil. then, trump will win pennsylvania and get back in office. he will take things in an even more radical direction supporting israel and wipe palestinians off the map. he'll also halt all aid to ukraine, and further egg on authoritarian dictators to take more liberties and commit atrocities. not to mention what hes going to do here to move to eliminate free and fair elections and democracy as a whole.

                                Thunk you both have valid points tbh. Both parties are effectively fucking things up in other parts of the world and in an ideal world you'd have another option to vote for. However if both are fucking things up for the rest of the world regardless, and you're going to be stuck with one of them either way, it makes sense to vote for who will at least somewhat (better) serve your own interests domestically.

                                Only way choosing to not vote will somehow work out with any result other than with one of the two in charge is if enough people choose not to vote that it forces electoral reform. And if those numbers were able to be readily mobilised then not voting wouldn't be the answer but rather finding a 3rd option they'd be comfortable voting for that serves their intersts both domestically and internationally, but that doesn't look likely to happen in the near future.

                                It's crazy to think in 2024 we're stuck with either the Tories or Starmer led Labour, the US with either Trump or the Dems with most of Europe trending even further to the right, but it's the world we live in. Kind of depressing to think we are headed backwards to the early to mid 20th century.

                                  Qwiss not exterminated, but alot of their rights will be 'given back to the states to decide', and we all know what that means. thats not imagined, its part of their agenda. can't hate people for voting their interests.

                                      mdgoonah41 going out sad. he speaks on a few interesting things that neither mainstream candidate does, such as calling out reforms for food quality and being a vocal critic of citizens united. I remember around 10 years ago he was also calling out republicans phony concerns about election integrity as veiled attempts at voter disenfranchisement for minorities. the democrats have been suing him in a number of states to keep off the ballot so I'd wager that's why he's endorsing trump. that, and they told him to kick rocks when he asked for a position in the next administration

                                          Gazza M hes a dangerous anti-vax lunatic, which i think is mostly why hes been shunned by dems. he was going to pull way more votes from trump than from harris, so i think him staying on the ballot in battleground states would have def hurt trump way more

                                            Big Willie Only way choosing to not vote will somehow work out with any result other than with one of the two in charge is if enough people choose not to vote that it forces electoral reform.

                                            As you've pointed out, the unravelling of the political class is happening across Europe and arguably across the world with a few exceptions so electoral reform is a nice to have but not likely to lead to a dramatic difference in outcomes all else being equal.

                                              Qwiss I feel what you're saying, but even you must see how naive/impractical your stance is. If you follow it to the next logical step which is you don't vote for either, guess what? Genocide still happens. And so whether you're American or not, genocide is happening on your watch. And since you, sitting over there, pontificating are not doing anything about it, or can't do anything about it, you're similarly responsible.

                                                mdgoonah41 I would like more people to withhold their vote from the democrats until it becomes too costly for them to keep supporting Israel. If you follow the "blue no matter who" line they'll never change. If an ongoing genocide can't motivate people to take a stand I'm not sure anything will.

                                                Gazza M can't hate people for voting their interests.

                                                Republicans vote in their interests too. Tories vote in their interests. That excuse only goes so far.

                                                      Qwiss this is a big misunderstanding of American empire and global militarism. America is not going to stop supporting Israel. And Americans have a very different view of the world from people outside. There are so many facets of American life that deeply tied to empire including the role of military, propaganda, and Israel plays an important role in Middle Eastern positioning. So neither party will abandon Israel.
                                                      Withholding votes for this purpose will be a marginal exercise that could only benefit republicans.

                                                          Claudius No one is expecting the US to cut ties with Israel or to threaten them militarily but if Reagan was able to call Menachem Begin and stop bombing in Beirut in 82 then Biden/Harris can do the same now. Thats not a big ask.