JazzG Just sorting this out over local and national governments would probably result in a sizeable savings. Anyone who has run a business this is just bog standard stuff, even for smaller businesses. Loads more stuff is gonna come out, ridiculous how governments are run in this day and age.

In isolation the numbers might look large. £250k is a big number, more than I'll ever see in my life, but relative to the budget of that department, or the NHS in general its peanuts. I'm not saying systems shouldn't improve, but that was caught. I've no doubt organisations like the NHS, or various Government departments could be more efficient in their outlook, but the scale of fraud in such organisations is unlikely to wiggle the needle never mind move it.

I suspect you've very little idea of how Governments are run to be honest. On your other comment about full transparency on where our money goes - there are thousands of reports, insight documents, reviews and various other publications on the National Audit Office website that you could start today and won't finish by the time you've popped your clogs. It's not to the detailed level of finding some chancer spotting a flaw in an NHS system and filing false invoices, but there is plenty that that does give transparency and insight on many of the issues, problems, and in many cases actual successes of the various different Government departments and agencies. Problem is you don't want transparency, you want outrage.

Pepe LeFrits I'm trying to cut back on social media but your point about the trans issue is interesting. My timeline just now is saturated with an employment tribunal case involving a trans doctor who was sharing a female changing room with a nurse. I've had one brief interaction that referenced it. Aside from the poisonous nature of the trans debate itself, it also ropes in the Scottish Independence debate, another issue which if you believed social media was front and centre of every discussion, but in the real world is rarely discussed in everyday life.

Pepe LeFrits probably right for most, but in higher education this is an issue of daily life. I also have multiple roles in regional youth sports programming, so it feels much more present in my world regardless of what's happening online.

awooga83 mate they may be working on the audit but it doesn't mean they are telling you the truth. I've questioned their accounts because they have been proven to be liars that for me blows your credibility as a source of reliable information

I think you've already decided they are lying and not really interested in what they find, fair enough.

Gazza M nice try on the democrat whataboutism, but again wrong. if Bill Gates and a team of his engineers were sent in to 'clean up' government spending it would be an equally shitty idea, and would probably spark violence from the right.

Elon Musk hasn't just appeared out of thin air to suddenly go through the government's books. Trump campaigned on this, this was one of his key policies and therefore considering he was voted in, he has a mandate from the American people to do this.

Gazza M then your media diet is dogshit and explains alot of your takes

Good for you, again with this elitist mentality that some have on here. Your opinions are more valid and mine are clearly formed from dogshit media.

RowJimmy This is something we already have a great deal of evidence about.

Lets be honest even if they were being honest and truthful you wouldn't want to know.

Mirth The UK government exchanged convicted prisoners with Albania - something that Albania are not obliged to accept - so they negotiated a settlement fee which included sending electric vehicles to the prison

I don't really have a problem with this stuff, as long as the government gets a return on the money then fine. I mean wouldn't it just be easier to say here is money to take them back?

Claudius @JazzG, what do you say today to people who’ve had to start this week without access to critical HIV medicines and other clinical care? Or black people who fund themselves on DEI hitlists when the concept of DEI has helped us with things like paternity leave or even WFH. What do you say to white South African farmers whose currency is suddenly 10% weaker because Elon and Trump spread lies about a land expropriation bill that reads exactly like US law on the same matter?

Of course any worthwhile aid should be restarted as soon as possible but they also need to get their finances in order otherwise even those worthwhile causes will get permanently stopped. I think last year the US deficit was $2 trillion, I think their debt is now 100% of GDP, how is that sustainable?

DEI started off with good intentions and some aspects are still good but some of it has morphed into a load of bullshit. You hear about certain minorities getting pushed ahead of others. In California I remember reading recently where Asians are now being discriminated against despite having better grades. How does that benefit anyone? My accountant's assistant is from India and he told me a story about a version of DEI which has existed there for many years. He didn't get a government job despite having better marks than others because he was from a higher caste. In his entrance exams he said he scored over 70% and some people with scores in the 40s got in over him. I don't see how this helps anyone. Again this probably started off with good intentions to help the citizens of those castes but eventually becomes destructive and lowers standards. On the Times the other day there was an article "Universities failing to promote diversity will face funding cuts", I don't see how that helps? I'm not white and I went to university, I got into a decent university but why should I have an advantage of over others and get entry into an elite university because I'm not white? That is just ridiculous to me, I think I'd have imposter syndrome if that was ever the case. We've gone almost from one form of discrimination to another.

I don't really know or fully understand the situation in South Africa so I won't comment about that.

Pepe LeFrits I don't mind mate, I get picked on all the time here I don't just get my news from Social Media. I'll usually have a browse on the BBC and The Times but occasionally I'll take a look at the Telegraph and the Guardian. Those two papers obviously have a clear bias but there is sometimes some good stuff on there.

I get the impression that a few on here think I'm some kind of far right loonie and that is fine. I do think some people on here are drifting so far left everyone else seems far right to them!

Tam In isolation the numbers might look large. £250k is a big number, more than I'll ever see in my life, but relative to the budget of that department, or the NHS in general its peanuts.

I'm guessing by that attitude you probably work for a government department! God knows how much other fraud took place, it might have happened after she left but no full audit took place to find out what else has gone missing and no further control methods were implemented after that happened. One person left and then all hushed up. That post of yours just simply sums it up, oh its only £250k from a large budget...

Tam Problem is you don't want transparency, you want outrage.

It is not really a problem is it? I just have a different view to you, or maybe you see that as a problem?

@JazzG, that’s literally not the intent of DEI. I am not from South Africa but live and work here in the services sector. My organisation’s leadership is full of white men from Europe. Even when I look at the broader org, there is good representation of men from SA in higher roles. Now if I look at high school and university marks in SA, women far outperform men. But in places like mine, they are under-represented. Because they hear about us less, we interview with more bias against them because we are a bunch of men, they leave more rapidly because they don’t want to work 12 hour days and travel all over Africa while fulfilling traditional gender roles and popping out babies. Add all that up, and you end up with a tough time time growing the women base.

So you actually need to actively create programs to grow and retain women. Doesn’t mean that the women are too stupid for the work. They juat face a million structural constraints that make their lives a lot harder than a man’s. That’s what DEI is about. It’s not about getting stupid people into your company.

JazzG I think you've already decided they are lying and not really interested in what they find, fair enough.

As I mentioned in my reply, I don't believe outright claims they make no because they have shown themselves to be dishonest in things they have said related to this very topic so it makes me sceptical at the outset. If they however provide the actual evidence and source information of their allegations to the public so that people can see see for themselves and it supports their claims then fair enough. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to take.

Your presumption seems to be that what they claim is the truth even without the evidence to I support it. You want transparency from government, why can't we have transparency from Musk et al?

awooga83 You want transparency from government, why can't we have transparency from Musk et al?

lol, it's so obvious it's ridiculous that you even have to write it aloud.

These pathetic business idiots think they're special because they have money. They are pitiful little weak-willed snowflakes who can't take even a shred of criticism without going ballistic.

For them, transparency is for the underpaid, overworked bureaucrat who foolishly dedicated their life to public service. They should have been born rich and bought themselves more money by bribing and extorting the US government like all the other business idiots, then they wouldn't cry so hard.

Claudius it's the framing that bothers me. It's blatantly racist.

Qwiss

It's everywhere. Young men are becoming more right wing (and women more liberal) - even in norway and denmark. Some surveys suggest it is a reaction to cultural issues.

JazzG Why does it matter which account I posted the video from?

It doesn't. Kudos for sticking to the issue.

I agree with the goal of Musk and Trump. Not sure they are doing it the right/most efficient way though.. we'll see in a year or two. Reducing the bureaucracy (in size and power) is necessary. Liberal democracies need more democracy (populism) and a less liberalism (institutions).

Populism isn't democratic, particularly in its current form where it relies heavily on mis/disinformation distributed through social media

So now NATO has effectively ceased to exist as well. What a catastrophe this administration is. The Russians couldn't have dreamed of a better outcome in their wildest dreams. Just goes to show that it is worth cultivating assets.

Gazza M

My version of populism is pretty simple. Will of the majority.

Gazza M also, democratic systems have been built by trial and error over thousands of years. they have checks and balances in place so nobody can typically impose their will on people. what Trump and Elon have figured out is that the government works through both rules and norms. They might not be able to break the rules - i.e., if anything is illegal, the courts will roll it back, but they can avoid the norms - i.e., implement illegal actions that would typically not be done because the system usually relies on negotiation with multiple stakeholders on every little topic, knowing that if you do enough of this you an a) change the perception of what is considered possible, and b) have some impact before the courts roll back your actions, including winning favour with your supporters and eliminating your enemies.

It's a very effective approach which people used to operating under democratic processes will have no idea how to deal with.

Kel Varnsen Reducing the bureaucracy (in size and power) is necessary. Liberal democracies need more democracy (populism) and a less liberalism (institutions).

Improved democracy comes from mass power, not this nonsense, which has only become possible due to the lack of it.

We had a discussion here about the 20 failed years of trying to get M4A up in the US. That's the symptom of elite economic domination, and so's this ... because if it were more democracy then public goods would be being instituted, with a mandate.

Dictatorship of the majority as a legitimate model of government or even as a form of democracy has been rejected a long time ago. Don't be a child.

Gurgen I think Europe needs to take some of the blame here as well. I don't agree with the American stance but Europe has been for too long ignored their own armed defences and relied upon American security for a long time. They've pissed away their money and now they'll be dictated to by the Americans how this war ends and the terms of it. They know exactly what Russia are like yet still chose that path, hell they happily bought oil off them.

Lets see what Trump does but early signs are he wants the war to stop and doesn't really care too much about anything else. Europe does have a lot of frozen Russian assets which it could try to use as leverage. But right now a lot of European countries needs to have a long hard think about how they prepare going forward. The Americans are not providing security any more, if they do it will come at a high cost.

Kel Varnsen I agree with the goal of Musk and Trump. Not sure they are doing it the right/most efficient way though.. we'll see in a year or two. Reducing the bureaucracy (in size and power) is necessary. Liberal democracies need more democracy (populism) and a less liberalism (institutions).

Democrats used to talk about this as well. I don't know how much Clinton and Obama got done, I do recall the last time their government had a surplus was under Clinton and possibly the first year of Bush.

Mirth What you described is a common scam that most businesses face and unfortunately some fall victim to.

I dare say that if the NHS flagged it at £250k, they have more sophisticated controls than Meta and Google!

I can't remember now how it was picked up but it happened long after the money had gone and they didn't recover anything. That Meta scam seems a lot more sophisticated then just sending an invoice through the post and hoping it gets paid!

Claudius So you actually need to actively create programs to grow and retain women. Doesn’t mean that the women are too stupid for the work. They juat face a million structural constraints that make their lives a lot harder than a man’s. That’s what DEI is about. It’s not about getting stupid people into your company.

Like I said it started with good intentions but it clearly being abused when less clever kids get vip lanes into top universities over more brighter kids because of their colour. I strongly support programs which have helped physically and mentally disabled people get into work, the problem is these good programs end up being abused by people with certain ideological beliefs.

awooga83 Your presumption seems to be that what they claim is the truth even without the evidence to I support it. You want transparency from government, why can't we have transparency from Musk et al?

That is the way government works, if Elon and Trump are fucking around they won't be able to hide it. In a couple years time when the next elections happen Trump will end up as a lame duck president like he did last time and then nothing gets done.

JazzG That is the way government works, if Elon and Trump are fucking around they won't be able to hide it. In a couple years time when the next elections happen Trump will end up as a lame duck president like he did last time and then nothing gets done.

Which is fine but it's only worth considering what they have alleged when they provide the supporting evidence, until then it's unverified and not worth taking on board because you have no way to know what's true.

JazzG Americans encouraged that behaviour because it suited them just fine to have the most powerful military in the world with as many countries as possible depending on them. They don't get to beat Europe with that stick, though Europe should wise up.

JazzG have you read the tech bros manifestos? that aint the way this ends

The anti-DEI stuff is engineered to give its spectator the vicarious thrill of punishing minority groups and their supporters.

That thrill is what you get to have instead of getting to have a more level playing field, a fair society and a better life. You're still behind the legacy admissions getting into the Ivy League.

I saw someone had filmed a good ole' boy / minuteman type blocking the door of a USAID office the other day. Then someone else made a photo montage of mostly just the black women who couldn't attend their former workplace. Which promptly went viral among Twitter fascists. That's what "anti-DEI" means: payback for chauvinists.

Gurgen Catching up on the news - it's incredible. All this stuff on DOGE and everything else is smoke and mirrors really compared to the reshaping of the world order.

JazzG I’ve worked in an admissions and financial aid university of a big school doing admin while I was a student. I can assure you that’s not what happens in these places. People don’t sit around conspiring to fill the school with dumb black and brown kids.

What you will find though is a lot of white kids being pushed through because their folks donated a million dollars or they have a chance to be a future Olympic athlete. Why aren’t you complaining about that? In fact legacies are 2-5x as likely as regular applicants to be admitted at Ivy League schools, where typically only 1/20 make the cut.

Claudius it's funny to complain about "DEI hires" and then look at the various people Trump has chosen for their roles.

QuincyAbeyie yup. Cos it’s not about DEI. It’s about maintaining white supremacy.
At least Trump and co don’t try to hide it. They’re quite open with policies like refugee programs for Afrikaners. Other folks have had to operate on the fringes with words like woke for the last few years. It’s a good time to be a white supremacist. .

Kel Varnsen

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-gen-z-popularity-favorable-rating-yougov-2030595

The 18-29 bracket aren't really a long term indicator - they're the most likely to shift over time compared to 30+

Gazza M Trump said Elon Musk and his team were gonna do it this way and that is what is happening. I mean tough if you don't like it but he won the popular vote and all swing states, he has a pretty strong mandate to do all this. When mid terms come if this all turns out to be a load of rubbish the voters will punish them and he'll end up a lame duck president for the rest of his term.

Obama's staffers talking about it and saying they should have done some of this stuff.

Mirth I'd agree with the latter, the US are taking about multi polar worlds and looks like they have no interest in spreading themselves thin. Their main worry and focus is China. Marco Rubio did an interview recently and it kind of gave a glimpse into their thinking. Ties into this all of a sudden obsession with the Panama Canal and Greenland.

Claudius The supreme court ruling that overturned Affirmative Action was bought forward by I think a conservative group who said the policies discriminated again Asian American students, are these Asian Americans the people who are trying to maintain white supremacy? A recent case gone into California alleging discrimination against Asian Americans. My understanding is that community feels pretty strongly about this, I had a few Chinese friends and spoke about them about this culture in their community of prioritising education over everything else. So I'm not surprised they feel a bit annoyed.

A mandate doesn't come from what margin you think is acceptable. He won the electoral college, popular votes and all the swing states. And all this DOGE stuff he has been going on about it since the summer.

Yes Obama had a mandate and a shame he didn't use his mandate to go after the banks and put people in jail after their fucks up tanked the world economy. Living a nice cushy life now I hear though.