Ivan Toney: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Ivan Toney

CPM

Jesus has 12 goals and 6 assists in 31 Premier League appearances (2281 minutes) for us. That is nothing to write home about. And for all his strengths, he's injury-prone, he's not a good finisher, and despite competing admirably, he's too small to be much of an aerial threat in the box or target man for long balls.

In terms of overall quality of player, Toney might not be 'better' than Jesus, but it's about the role he plays for us in the context of our system. Toney fills a position of need – a thoroughbred center forward, a pure #9 – whereas Jesus is more of a forward/winger hybrid which I don't see as useful. I'm happy to keep him as a versatile squad player, but I'd also be open to moving him on if the price is right.

RowJimmy

CPM No.

DiabyKungFu

CPM Jesus has 12 goals and 6 assists in 31 Premier League appearances (2281 minutes) for us. That is nothing to write home about. And for all his strengths, he's injury-prone, he's not a good finisher, and despite competing admirably, he's too small to be much of an aerial threat in the box or target man for long balls.

In terms of overall quality of player, Toney might not be 'better' than Jesus, but it's about the role he plays for us in the context of our system. Toney fills a position of need – a thoroughbred center forward, a pure #9 – whereas Jesus is more of a forward/winger hybrid which I don't see as useful. I'm happy to keep him as a versatile squad player, but I'd also be open to moving him on if the price is right.

Meatwad

you all might disagree with his take, but there is no way in hell if he was a top class striker that arteta would be shunting him out wide to make room for eddie fuckin nketia. he would play someone like reiss out wide before he moved his stud striker from his natural position. but he's not a stud so he's movable.

QuincyAbeyie

Meatwad So what? Toney isn't top class.

RowJimmy

What I vehemently disagree with is not the evaluation of Jesus but the identification of the type of forward we need for our system. We do not need a classic nine, big guy, target, Engerland, blah blah blah. It's not what the system calls for. We only go for such a player if someone of the overwhelming talent of Haaland were to become available to us.

DiabyKungFu

I vehemently disagree with the evaluation of Jesus.

Qwiss

I don't really think Toney is better than Jesus but I do think there are attainable strikers who are better than Jesus. On his day Jesus is unplayable but he's always been a bit hot and cold and we seen the cold ourselves at the end of last season. Now maybe as he hits his peak years those dips get shorter but I do think it holds him back from really being irreplaceable in the way Saka, Odegaard, etc are.

There are also days where I think I'd love Giroud in this team, a big strong back to goal striker who can bring the attackers in and play quick passes around the box. Jesus does that in his own way but not with his back to goal and against a low block I'd love that quality in the team as an option at least. That said I don't think Toney really gives you that.

Gunner89

I think Giroud has become better at certain aspects of his game. Can't believe he's still performing at such a high level. Testament to his professionalism.

Toney looked like prime-Drogba at the Emirates last season. Won everything all day.

Haven't seen him that regularly to say if he does that regularly.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Not claiming to be an ITK by any stretch of the imagination but the same source that confirmed Rice was signing told me that Toney told his client that he is willing to leave Brentford this Jan but to whichever club offers the most money.

Hardly groundbreaking news but still a bit of a minor red flag and again exposes this guy as maybe not being the best fit culturally.

JazzG

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Hardly groundbreaking news but still a bit of a minor red flag and again exposes this guy as maybe not being the best fit culturally.

Raya you'd think would have told the coaches all we need to know about him. We have harmony and togetherness in the dressing room, that simply cannot be comprised no matter how good the player is.

Meatwad

big january signings are a waste of time. what will he help us accomplish this season? better to save our money for the summer when players who can actually help us win the league will be available. he's more of the same we have in the squad right now: not good enough.

flobaba

Meatwad I agree to an extent. For the most part, January signings are intended to bring in cover, or a stop gap type situation, or a bit of desperation. You don’t want it to be a huge outlay, but you’re at the mercy of the selling club if they have no real urgency or might benefit from a bidding war.

But the flip side is if you do get it right, that injection of momentum, of a bit of consistent quality at a critical juncture in the season is invaluable. Allows time for others to find their form again and might even unlock the whole attack. Especially for someone like Toney who knows the league and would certainly (in my opinion) relish the challenge of leading a top club, and probably even feels he has a point to prove.

Normally I’m neutral about January signings, but In this case I feel it’s a necessity rather than a luxury. Title winning windows are this small, this tight. We know we have a close to title winning team now. We might need an extra push to get it over the line? Alright then, go get it, and win. Win now. Principle later.

Coombs

Who else is available?

Meatwad

flobaba
i actually like him as an option to bring on and spot start and was in favor of him earlier in the season. but the more I watch us we need a clear #1 striker and that's not him. why waste money we don't have (and it might be kroenke's money, but the FFP rules clearly put a stop to us with this raya loan with mandatory buy option thing). just go after the real heavy hitters in the summer, they aren't for sale in january for obvious reasons.

Gazza M

don't really want us to waste time with toney tbh. I think we have deeper issues that won't be solved by sticking an above average 9 into the team

Don Pacifico

Why waste spending an inflated fee on someone who hasn't played for 7 months? If Toney is 'the one,' you buy him in the summer.

flobaba

Ultimately it's about how much impact you think the player would make, not how long they've been out.

And why wait? We need a goal scorer now. If he's our guy, and we can make it happen, we should do it now.

Sell Nketiah to Crystal Palace to help with FFP.

Maybe Smith Rowe too, I wouldn't mind sacrificing him as well.

If we don't win the league, it will likely be because we don't have a striker who can score about 10-15 goals in the second half of the season. One who can convert control and dominance into goals at the right time, nudging game momentum and results in our favor.

Defence is solid, midfield is very good, contribution across forward line is and has been the big drop off.

Don Pacifico

flobaba Ultimately it's about how much impact you think the player would make, not how long they've been out.

Yeah, I'm not convinced he's going to make an impact this season.

goon

Toney isn’t really that either though. I know he scored a few last year, but he’s pretty much another Jesus buildup type.

I personally don’t think that’s the worst thing in the world, but a 28yr old rotational/backup option shouldn’t cost much more than Trossard money.

Anyway, I’d be amazed if Brendford sell in Jan. They’re dropping down the table and Mbeumo is out long term.

lorddulaarsenal

He’d bring a much greater goal threat than Jesus.

He’s an excellent player. Clever and physically able

Qwiss

lorddulaarsenal He’d bring a much greater goal threat than Jesus.

Yep he's consistently scored throughout his career. I think given how much of the ball we're having in the opposition 3rd he'd score a load here.

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