🏆 Arsenal vs PSV, Champions League, Wednesday 20th September, 8pm: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

🏆 Arsenal vs PSV, Champions League, Wednesday 20th September, 8pm

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 The errors v Sporting and Southampton (esp the latter) are unforgivable for me and huge red flags.

'Keepers make errors and when they do they're magnified because they lead to goals. Seaman let in Nayim's goal during his peak years but didn't detract from him being one of the best of his generation. Think it is extreme to call those two games unforgivable.
Both errors were indirectly a result of Arteta's instructions. The style of play expects more form 'keepers and is more prone to errors that look really bad - the margins can be thin.
If you don't want bad looking errors, then you don't want Raya either. Has made some similar gaffes to Ramsdale, whilst being older and playing at a lower level (Championship).

Sicario2 - Tier 1

1) Seaman made a similar big error v Ronaldinho years later. So it wasn’t the first and not the last. History repeats itself with Achilles heels.
2) Man, there are no excuses for what Ramsdale did v Sporting/Southampton. Instructions or not those were on Ramsdale. For Southampton he much better options with that pass, he was brain-dead, that wasn’t on Arteta ffs
3) Raya is the superior keeper, you will see this season.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 suggesting that letting in a long range goal like that is somehow an ingrained flaw is a bit of a logical fallacy because it happened more than once.

Also, I'm not blaming Arteta, I'm just saying that our style of play will likely precipitate more errors from any 'keeper that plays in our system.

Fully prepared for Raya to play well but he's just as likely to make the same errors that your lambasting Ramsdale for. So I disagree with the premise of your argument.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico

If and when he makes an error we can comment, so far so good.

Just because he has the same style or we set up the same doesn’t mean he will make the same errors.

Without repeating myself, he’s the better keeper and defenders will be more comfortable around him so errors will be minimised.

Let’s agree to disagree for now.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 for what it's worth, I'm not saying Raya isn't the better 'keeper. What I'm disagreeing with is the notion that Ramsdale is bad and that Raya won't commit similar errors.

Given his age, I also think Ramsdale has a higher ceiling.

RowJimmy

DiabyKungFu RowJimmy Because if the idea is to use both goalkeepers we should do so

I don't think that's the idea. I think Arteta is just waffling to defuse/distract from what would be a tense situation. Just today he compared the situation to when he brought in Ramsdale when we had Leno.

Managers lie all the time. I just don't see why Arteta would have spent so much time talking about rotating keepers if he wasn't going to do it - I think it buys him more trouble later than if he just said, I've selected the player who I think will help the team win.

Burnwinter

RowJimmy I think you're right. Whatever his thinking on Raya may have been, Arteta's now made goalkeeper rotation the public test of his courage. I'm a bit surprised anyone thinks he won't find an occasion for it after that.

Burnwinter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I was in the stadium for Southampton game and it was the worst Arsenal experience I’ve ever felt (been to 100 plus games). That was mainly on Ramsdale.

That whole period was shocking on morale and confusion with a terrible lack of leadership and focus from many players.

OMITT needs an "I told you so" feature, because you'll have set a high bar for yourself when Raya makes his own errors.

Clrnc

Burnwinter I mentioned it before, but there's a weird trend here shitting on our own players whenever a new guy comes in and takes the place of him, then saying I told you he's shit when the very same guys praised him sky high for the entire season before that. Not sicario btw since he's been consistently shitting on Ramsdale so he's fair I guess, but it's 3 months ago where there was zero links about Raya, many saying Ramsdale will be an Arsenal legend to come and some even said he's the best goalie in Europe, most valuable etc.

There's overjustification and over analysing of our manager’s decision whenever he makes changes. He's trying to improve the team in the metric he wants but doesn't mean the previous guy was shit or not good enough. There's very little between Ramsdale and Raya, both not top top quality.

Burnwinter

Clrnc Yeah I don't really get it. It's not just OMITT either.

To be fair, football managers' motives are nearly always a bit different from what they say publicly and for good reason, but Arteta's become so central to Arsenal there's nonstop fantasies about his private agendas.

Even if you hold the perspective of Arsenal's growing "Arteta Knows" fan contingent, much criticism of Ramsdale seems out of proportion.

Ramsdale, Smith Rowe, Pépé, keep it going … quality professionals, then getting dropped creates this incentive to run them down as individuals.

People would rather talk about how Smith Rowe outperformed his xG than remember the vital goals he scored.

Arteta now enjoys Wenger-esque mystique and authority with little financial accountability. He is a compelling manager, but Arsenal should rebalance to maximise squad value and FFP alignment or it will cost us a few wilderness seasons down the track.

Claudius

Clrnc no different from the trend of shitting on new players before they’ve had a chance to settle in and prove themselves. Just look at the pages we have here on Ramsdale himself, White and Jesus before they kicked a ball. Or Havertz, Partey, Vieira while they were ramping up

daredevil

Clrnc

Who said he was the best keeper in Europe or that he would become an Arsenal legend?

HomeSteak

Burnwinter

Arteta now enjoys Wenger-esque mystique and authority with little financial accountability

And without the trophies. This place isi lvl headed, and people do point out his wrong doings and question his moves etc, but there are places like reddit or most of twitter where Arteta is just god. If you dare say anything that he might have done wrong you will be ganged up on...its insane. People act like he is some sort of serial winner, world class manager...but he is not.

Burnwinter

Jesus interviewed saying the squad's had the CL anthem on in the gym 😄

QuincyAbeyie

Burnwinter Least surprising news I've heard in a while. 😂 Let's hope it works better than when we played You'll never walk alone before our 4-0 loss.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Don Pacifico agreed. I do wonder what Arteta really thinks now though.

Clrnc

Claudius People shitting on own players who months ago was deemed as indispensable and a huge part of our success, and future moving forward is very different from being skeptical about a new signing and its value we paid for.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie I interpreted that comment, admittedly I've only seen this reference to it, as being to do with the squad's excitement at being back in the big time. Might be wrong though.

Claudius

Clrnc so I’m not in favour of shitting on players. I generally try to avoid it - will point out where players have glaring gaps but I appreciate that these guys are all good players bar Cedric the Entertainer.

But I think it’s fine for us to keep looking for opportunities for improvement, particularly where we have a lot of data on players. Until your team is filled with players like Rodri, Silva, Haaland and KDB, there will always be scope for improvement in the squad. So I can understand the perception that Ramsdale can be improved upon - when we look at Rays’s ability playing out, distributing to the wings, and being a sweeper. Those are all important parts of our offense - which we need to lean in to.

KingslandBarge

The CL away gear is just supreme.

We won't play this, just a thought:

               Raya 
   White Saliba Gabriel Tomiyasu
   Saka Ødegaard Rice Smith-Rowe
               Trossard
            Jesus

Clrnc

KingslandBarge would love this team. Arteta won't rotate in the first UCL match for 6 years but hope to see some gametime for ESR early in the 2nd half once the game is won

KingslandBarge

Would really like to see this KingslandBarge kind of shape and associated attacks with that line up

KingslandBarge

Clrnc True, this one probably a few months premature

We'll know shortly if this rumoured line up is accurate...
Raya; White, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko; Odegaard, Rice, Havertz; Saka, Jesus, Trossard

est

Would be interesting to see how that line-up would do.

Doc

Wouldn't mind seeing it also but as a regular 433 with ESR out wide... maybe even Saka or Ode on the bench.

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