🏆 Arsenal vs PSV, Champions League, Wednesday 20th September, 8pm: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

🏆 Arsenal vs PSV, Champions League, Wednesday 20th September, 8pm

DiabyKungFu

RowJimmy Because if the idea is to use both goalkeepers we should do so

I don't think that's the idea. I think Arteta is just waffling to defuse/distract from what would be a tense situation. Just today he compared the situation to when he brought in Ramsdale when we had Leno.

RowJimmy

DiabyKungFu RowJimmy Because if the idea is to use both goalkeepers we should do so

I don't think that's the idea. I think Arteta is just waffling to defuse/distract from what would be a tense situation. Just today he compared the situation to when he brought in Ramsdale when we had Leno.

Managers lie all the time. I just don't see why Arteta would have spent so much time talking about rotating keepers if he wasn't going to do it - I think it buys him more trouble later than if he just said, I've selected the player who I think will help the team win.

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Ramsdale is not CL quality, look how shit he was in EL.

He was almost PL winning quality then overnight he's now not CL group stage quality?

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie

Group stage or not, CL different gravy. It’s the pressure coupled with the fact it’s our first time there in 7 years. Appreciate Raya has never played in Europe but he is a lot more assured.

Ramsdale is not a CL quality keeper imo.

Big Willie

I dunno why we have a habit of turning on our own players so easily, especially players who have performed well for the club and more importantly still young and have room to grow. I like Raya, he looks a really good goalkeeper, but Ramsdale hasn't turned shit just because we signed Raya. We were all content enough going into the season with Ramsdale until we found out we were in for Raya.

DiabyKungFu

Big Willie We were all content enough going into the season with Ramsdale

Meh. I was definitely putting him on Fraud Watch© entering the season.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie

The errors v Sporting and Southampton (esp the latter) are unforgivable for me and huge red flags.

I was in the stadium for Southampton game and it was the worst Arsenal experience I’ve ever felt (been to 100 plus games). That was mainly on Ramsdale.

That was the moment I think Arteta had enough too.

Forget about being content mate. I’m sure we are content going into this season with Jesus but if Victor O became available you telling me you wouldn’t want him to replace the Brazilian?

Since his great debut season, Ramsdale has been all over the fucking place. I totally, totally back Mikel on this.

Big Willie

DiabyKungFu Big Willie We were all content enough going into the season with Ramsdale

Meh. I was definitely putting him on Fraud Watch© entering the season.

I mean you can say that now, but a new keeper isn't something you or anyone else was hoping for when looking at our squad and what we should do to improve.

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I was in the stadium for Southampton game and it was the worst Arsenal experience I’ve felt (been to 100 plus games).

That's probably only because I couldn't attend. I guarantee wins mate. 😉

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 . I totally, totally back Mikel on this.

By the way I agree with this. I think on the evidence so far Raya is the better keeper, we'll see how he fares over the course of the season, I just think a lot more is being made of Ramsdale's (supposed lack of) quality than is reality.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 The errors v Sporting and Southampton (esp the latter) are unforgivable for me and huge red flags.

'Keepers make errors and when they do they're magnified because they lead to goals. Seaman let in Nayim's goal during his peak years but didn't detract from him being one of the best of his generation. Think it is extreme to call those two games unforgivable.
Both errors were indirectly a result of Arteta's instructions. The style of play expects more form 'keepers and is more prone to errors that look really bad - the margins can be thin.
If you don't want bad looking errors, then you don't want Raya either. Has made some similar gaffes to Ramsdale, whilst being older and playing at a lower level (Championship).

Burnwinter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I was in the stadium for Southampton game and it was the worst Arsenal experience I’ve ever felt (been to 100 plus games). That was mainly on Ramsdale.

That whole period was shocking on morale and confusion with a terrible lack of leadership and focus from many players.

OMITT needs an "I told you so" feature, because you'll have set a high bar for yourself when Raya makes his own errors.

Panda

I think Raya will play the next 2 unless he fucks up. Think Arteta played him against Everton to get him up to speed. Ramsdale will play against Brentford in the cup.

DiabyKungFu

Big Willie I mean you can say that now, but a new keeper isn't something you or anyone else was hoping for when looking at our squad and what we should do to improve.

To put a finer point on it, I thought Ramsdale was our worst starter last season (worse than Xhaka) but we would give him one more season because he's young. So I was certainly hoping for an improvement, but not expecting it.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie

Listen, you mention ‘habit of turning on our players’. Mate this is elite sport. 4 years ago we thought Tierney was the one. 2 seasons ago we thought Tomi was our right back forever. Football evolves. Just last season Partey was our most important player, now he’s a fucking RB.

If we want to continuously improve we mustn’t stand still and ALL players must be on their toes and perform week in week out.

Apart from Timber (I feel sorry for his injury) and maybe Saka I have little to no emotional attachment to these players. My attachment is to the team and doing better and improving.

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Apart from Timber (I feel sorry for his injury) and maybe Saka I have little to no emotional attachment to these players.

That's weird to me but OK I guess.

Big Willie

@DiabyKungFu so when you looked at our squad last season, was your priority signing a keeper? If not how high on your list would one be?

DiabyKungFu

Big Willie so when you looked at our squad last season, was your priority signing a keeper? If not how high on your list would one be?

Xhaka was mediocre and old while Ramsdale was just mediocre so a midfielder made sense as the highest priority. I think goalkeeper was a reasonable second priority.

Edit: Maybe "mediocre" isn't the most precise word. More like "a little bit better than average".

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico

1) Seaman made a similar big error v Ronaldinho years later. So it wasn’t the first and not the last. History repeats itself with Achilles heels.
2) Man, there are no excuses for what Ramsdale did v Sporting/Southampton. Instructions or not those were on Ramsdale. For Southampton he much better options with that pass, he was brain-dead, that wasn’t on Arteta ffs
3) Raya is the superior keeper, you will see this season.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 suggesting that letting in a long range goal like that is somehow an ingrained flaw is a bit of a logical fallacy because it happened more than once.

Also, I'm not blaming Arteta, I'm just saying that our style of play will likely precipitate more errors from any 'keeper that plays in our system.

Fully prepared for Raya to play well but he's just as likely to make the same errors that your lambasting Ramsdale for. So I disagree with the premise of your argument.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico

If and when he makes an error we can comment, so far so good.

Just because he has the same style or we set up the same doesn’t mean he will make the same errors.

Without repeating myself, he’s the better keeper and defenders will be more comfortable around him so errors will be minimised.

Let’s agree to disagree for now.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 for what it's worth, I'm not saying Raya isn't the better 'keeper. What I'm disagreeing with is the notion that Ramsdale is bad and that Raya won't commit similar errors.

Given his age, I also think Ramsdale has a higher ceiling.

Burnwinter

RowJimmy I think you're right. Whatever his thinking on Raya may have been, Arteta's now made goalkeeper rotation the public test of his courage. I'm a bit surprised anyone thinks he won't find an occasion for it after that.

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