David Raya : Page 6 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

David Raya

flobaba

I think it's another statement signing from the recruitment team to help us be even more press resistant and keep us steadily on the front foot. Good stuff.

Gazza M

this signing is in the havertz zone for me. I'm not loving it, but I don't hate it and can see some possible benefit. it does make one pause and look back at 100m pounds spent on the 2 of them and wonder if there was a better way to spend that money, but I've felt that way since we signed ben white. very much wait and see mode

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah I think we won't pay 40m. No other clubs is paying 40m and he only wants to come here. It's nearing the end of window and if they don't sell they lose him for free.

Probably 20 to 25m is a fair price. Anything else and we again looks like mugs overpaying while getting crap value from our players

Don Pacifico I think that's one of Artetas blind spot. This is reportedly Cana's favorite and he has been pushing for Raya. Also presumably means Cana is not convinced by Rams. Assuming we continue to splash like mad I don't care about Raya price tbh. But in a normal world where our kitty are finite I agree with you that this incremental gain for a new number 1 is not worth it.

If people are also concerned about penalty saving for Rams, I would bring you to the fact Raya is worse.

Burnwinter

With the fee, it's a lot of money but I tend to think we will recoup more than half selling one of these two the following summer.

I feel slightly uneasy about the dressing room impact, but when I think about it there are a few clear benefits:

If Ramsdale has one of his predictable drops in form we've got Raya, or vice versa.
I strongly felt the "leaders" (including Ramsdale) in our squad needed to be under more pressure for their places last season

We've developed an amazing positive vibe across the squad, and we've got all our young stars locked down on contracts. But we are going to need to scrap or banish several players in the next few weeks. Now's the time to find that psychological cutting edge.

flobaba

I don't get the fixation on the price. Should we want him more only if he costs less? Would he have less or more attractive goalkeeping ability?

I think many Arsenal fans are yet to come to terms with this new era. We are a billionaire owned club. And daddy Wal-bucks clearly favors Arteta and is solidly behind the club's spending at the moment. We will spend as much as we can as long as the accountants tell us they can make it work. We obviously haven't been out there looking for "value" all summer long.

Money ain't a thang at Arsenal now. Get used to it.

RocktheCasbah

flobaba I wouldn't want us to spend any money at all on him, the idea of him playing for us horrifies me (I'm probably being dramatic here, but this is how I feel), so any money is too much. Forty - or 25 Clrnc, mill is ridiculous.

flobaba

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12824369/david-raya-the-rise-of-brentford-goalkeeper-from-non-league-southport-to-one-of-the-premier-leagues-best

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah I haven't seen you underrate or not rate a player that's linked to us this much before. I do remember a few times you said you had a close friend supporting Brentford that isn't complimentary of his abilities so if that's correct I do understand.

I just think watching Raya highlights, he's very short and even if his reflexes is fast he can't get to many good finishes. His positioning is more impressive than Rams though so he don't need to make so many Hollywood saves.

RocktheCasbah

Actually, on the point about his distribution, I think he was helped by the fact that, in Ivan Toney, Brentford have someone who can compete for and win a high volume of long balls, but even I noticed how good Raya's distribution was when Brentford were at our place last season, particularly at distance. It was like Raya - Toney and Brentford were 80 yards up the pitch in seconds. I'm not sure if the free kick they, incorrectly, won for the equaliser came from such a situation, but it might have.

So I do get the logic, I just don't think he's going to be necessarily more secure than Rammers.

Big Willie

@RocktheCasbah guess you just got to trust that Arteta knows what he's doing.

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc I haven't seen you underrate or not rate a player that's linked to us this much before. I do remember a few times you said you had a close friend supporting Brentford that isn't complimentary of his abilities so if that's correct I do understand.

Almost.

Two of my best mates are Brentford fans, and we all take an interest in each other's teams, so I've seen enough of Raya and his errors to form my own opinion of him. Someone was mentioning about Aaron conceding that goal in the EL from distance, conveniently forgetting that Aaron was probably more or less where he was supposed to be and the guy hit that ball so very perfectly to beat him. It was a much better strike than the one that did Dave Seaman in '95 and nobody came away from that game going, "I know, lets bin big Dave..."

David Raya got done at Wembley in a much worse way 3 years ago and it cost Brentford promotion. That's not the only example I've seen of him, "from bean to cup you fuck up" for the Bees, but I can't think of the specific examples now. Though I do remember that two seasons ago, our own Emile beat Raya with a shot from around the edge of the box I was very surprised he managed to find the corner with (I was right behind the line of the shot as Emile took it). I do appreciate though, that this kind of finish is something of a trademark for the Smith, so I'm not sure how much blame to put on Raya!

My general point is that I don't think Raya is significantly better than Ramsdale to justify the outlay on him and if people think we're getting a goalkeeper who is going to come in and not drop absolute clangers, you might be in for a surprise. I also think we've all seen countless keepers down the years come to this club and not be able to dominate the box, we now have one and yet we're looking at signing a keeper who, at 5"11 is less likely to do that and that gives me the heebie jeebies. On top of that, chasing this guy having just tied Ramsdale down to a new deal reeks of mixed messaging as well as slightly muddled thinking.

But as I've said up above, I am prepared to be wrong (and I will of course get behind the guy whenever he plays for us, if he does) and, as Big Willie says

Big Willie guess you just got to trust that Arteta knows what he's doing.

I guess that's it.

Don Pacifico

There's a couple of things I disagree with from what others have said.

Firstly, that we have 'infinite' funds. If that is the case, then sure, I'd be on board with bringing Raya in (kinda). But I can't see beyond the fact that our spending increases our level of debt (we have to pay the Kroenkes back etc.), which at some point further down the line will impact our spending (particularly if we don't improve our selling capabilities).

Secondly, whilst in principle I agree with the notion that we are able to invest into GK if candidates for the other squad vacancies aren't on the market, it is still predicated by my first point in that we should be mindful of the impact further down the line of investing £40m into a position where we have appropriate cover.

Also, I can't get away from the fact that the kind of approach we're taking here would be justifiable if it were for a generational talent, where in reality it's probably for this generation's Victor Valdes (yes, I'm being flippant). For me, this smacks of our leadership team having drunk the Kool Aid.

I'm willing to acknowledge I got Ramsdale wrong and I hope I'm wrong about everything I've said above but can't shake the feeling that some of our choices are going to bite us in the ass later down the line.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico infinite funds is obviously bullshit, we still need to abide by FFP rules.

Mirth

What makes you say that we’re funding these players through debt?

Don Pacifico

Mirth my understanding (happy to be proven wrong by someone better informed) is that our transfer spending (particularly during the Europa years, post-COVID etc.) has been significantly funded by the Kroenkes, who charge interest on their loans.

@Clrnc for what it's worth, one of my best friends is a Brentford fan (former season ticket holder) and he loves Raya.

Mirth

Don Pacifico my understanding (happy to be proven wrong by someone better informed) is that our transfer spending (particularly during the Europa years, post-COVID etc.) has been significantly funded by the Kroenkes, who charge interest on their loans.

The Covid loan was effectively a restructuring of debt that Arsenal already owed. Arsenal took most of those loans out pre-2008 and they had an abnormally high interest (perhaps not so abnormal in 2023) and fairly restrictive covenants including keeping aside a set cash balance that could not be used for transfers or business operations.

During Covid, Arsenal were likely to breach most of the loan covenants because the world came to a standstill and at which point Kroenke stepped in and paid off the loan to external parties parties and replaced it with the loan to KSE. Overall it was a net benefit because we refinanced at a much lower rate of interest and we do no longer have any restrictive loan covenants which had a knock on effect of freeing up cash for more operations.

Subsequent to that, we've also trimmed down our wage bill significantly (https://dailycannon.com/2023/03/arsenal-wage-bill/) and we've also performed ahead of expectations by finishing second and getting back into the CL which also provided a nice boost. The only downside is that we haven't sold particularly well but every other aspect has been pretty well managed.

All that to say is that we aren't financing player transfers through additional debt. Kroenke did restructure our finances at a critical time which naturally makes us a more healthy business but that's about it.

jones

Clrnc tbf half of those aren't really bad mistakes, just that United twitter dickhead trying to take the piss.

Still if we're paying 40m for a goalie to bench our 30m keeper he should get to some if not most of those. Either way I'd rather replace our GK coach Cana who seems to make everyone he works with worse. Leno dipped in form exactly during the time he worked with him (and said in interviews he doesn't like him), Ramsdale is at least very inconsistent, the less said about Runnarsson the better.

Dislike Ramsdale's antics but his potential is far bigger than Raya's. Different coach could fix him imo.

QuincyAbeyie

Good thing we didn't sell Partey to not lose 20m on him next season if this is what we're spending our money on.

If there's one position in the team where it's much better to spend 70m on one player and 10m on the other than 40m on each, it's the GK position imo.

We'll have paid a lot for two decent keepers instead of a world class one and a backup who won't embarrass himself.

flobaba

Increased cost doesn't necessarily automatically translate to significantly better or world class. You identify the attributes you need or want and go for a player based on their availability (if you can afford it). It has been our M.O. all summer. Why should this be any different?

daredevil

I have a gut feeling Raya will be our CL and other Cups keeper and we will have a Bravo/Ter Stegen setup.

Don Pacifico

Mirth that all makes sense.

However, given the 'overspend' during the Europa years and the continued significant investment in players (see £105m against Rice), is there not going to be a time where because of FFP, we have to rein in our spending? Commercially (as I understand it) we've lost a lot of ground over the last ten years so our current spending pattern feels to me (a) unsustainable and (b) a strategy of over invest now (in young players) so that you don't have to invest us much in the future. Either way, we will need to reduce our annual transfer expenditure at some point unless there is a significant step-change in our commercial performance and our trophy-winning (don't think qualifying for the CL will cover it).

Again, happy to be proven wrong but I'm struggling to see how our expenditure now won't impact our spending further down the line.

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