Declan "Deccers" Rice: Page 54 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Declan "Deccers" Rice

Sicario2

QuincyAbeyie this is a really poor take. I hope you were too young in 2005 and 2006 to remember what Gerrard did.

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario2 I said prone. He had a career far longer than two years.

Sicario2

QuincyAbeyie another bizarre statement, you don’t get bigger than getting your team across the line almost single handily to a CL win. Anything he does after is almost immaterial but he did it again the following year in FA Cup final.

Just because he slipped and didn’t win them the league it doesn’t negate his heroics in aforementioned finals/tournaments.

QuincyAbeyie

You saying that the rest of his career is irrelevant kind of proves my point.

Sicario2

QuincyAbeyie so what’s ‘getting over the line’ for you if you are discounting the single biggest definition of it?

You can’t really compare league campaigns with cup competitions.

I would swap one CL with many, many achievements and I’m sure Gerrard would do.

You only have to ‘get over the line’ in a big tournament like a WC or CL once to be a legend for a club/county

Did Henry ever ‘get it over the line’ for us in CL?

USArsenal

Sicario2 Did Henry ever ‘get it over the line’ for us in CL?

You really want to bring multiple Prem/FA Cup and WC/Euros winner Henry into it? He certainly helped to get us 'over the line' domestically quite a bit, and also for France. You are focusing solely on the CL, which is silly. You think Henry is not a legend for Arsenal and for France just because we lost in the finals to Barca that one year? (where he helped us get TO the final, but a red card to Lehmann sorta derailed that game)

Mirth

Young Gerrard probably was similar to Rice and a fantastic leader.

After that FA Cup final he started believing his own hype and focused on looking like a leader rather than actually leading.

The biggest issue generally with Gerrard being held up as the standard is that it reduces leadership to being a passion merchant. Maldini’s the best club captain I’ve ever seen and he was nothing like Gerrard.

Burnwinter

Mirth The biggest issue generally with Gerrard being held up as the standard is that it reduces leadership to being a passion merchant.

Yep, if this was the standard then Zinchenko or Xhaka would be our leaders in recent years. I'm glad we've got Ødegaard and Rice who understand the term refers to leading a football team that plays football.

By the way I'm not saying Gerrard wasn't a brilliant player nor that he wasn't a game-changer, he was obviously both. He could cut daisies with his strikes, some of his greater goals verged on Rivaldo. And was at the centre of some enviable moments for Liverpool.

It's because he was those things that his average leadership was more evident. I don't think his management career so far is gonna change perceptions on that.

Sicario2

Of course Henry is a legend, he’s our GOAT but we have to admit the fact he never scored in a final for club or country is a big black mark against him

Mirth

Sicario2 tbh if you watch the Euro 2000 final you wouldn’t think that

Claudius

Sicario2 wrong!!!

tazmania

Sicario2 this is so wrong on so many levels. Henry is a true legend

Mirth

Sicario2 worst take ever. Henry’s hattrick against Liverpool in 04 is one of the key reasons we were invincible. I don’t think a goal in a cup final makes a difference here - unless you specifically mean the CL final.

Sicario2

Mirth you referring to Wiltord ?

I jest, Henry was amazing in that tournament but it was Trezeguet’s goal that will live in folklore

Mirth

Sicario2 in your folklore

Gunner89

His first CL campaign was ordinary, I think him getting accustomed to how top level European football and the dark arts took time, but he's been exceptional this campaign.

Forget the FK's, his all round game, intelligence, awareness is out of this world.

He took an average West Ham side to a conference league title and nearly won them the Europa too.

samthegooner

Declan's form the last few months has been out of this world and has certainly helped us cope with some of these big injuries. One thing I was thinking about yesterday was that while this PSG team has changed a lot since we played them in the fall with the addition of Kvara and Dembele's form skyrocketing after not playing against us, Rice was nowhere near the form he's in now at that point. So it's true we are going to be missing Kai and Gabriel but Rice's growth in influence may make up for some of that.

USArsenal

It's like saying Bergkamp isn't a legend because he did not win the CL for us or a World Cup (or Euros) for Netherlands. Pretty sure all players and fans and pundits globally consider both he and Henry true legends of the game, even though they didn't "get Arsenal over the line in the Champions League"

Sicario2

USArsenal who said he wasn’t
a legend? But by not scoring in a final prob means Henry is a tier down from the likes of Ronaldo (R9) and Zidane in the history books imo

Qwiss

JazzG honestly think that has been changing for a while. When I hear people talk about the England team they always start with Rice in midfield. He's literally the first choice, can't be dropped England mid.

Qwiss

Burnwinter yeah Rice is a team player. Gerrard was never that. Always the Gerrard show for good and quite often bad.

Gazza M

Qwiss stevie me gave up on being an actual centre mid in around 2004

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Nothing more cringeworthy and disappointing than the Gerrard-Lampard hype for England and how utterly out of their depth they/we were every fucking tournament.

World Cup 2006 and especially 2010 were so pathetic especially with the WAGs and ensuing media circus at those tournaments.

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