Kai Havertz: Page 8 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Kai Havertz

flobaba

"It's Chelsea". Who gives a shit?

"It's 600billion" : is it your money?

RocktheCasbah

flobaba Jesus alone to play the forward/false 9 role

And Tross too, don't forget. I agree with your general point though.

awooga83

flobaba my reaction is based on for 3 seasons he's been poor and does not look good enough to what we need. A lot of the case for him seems to be his "potential" and what he could do but minimises the info we've actually seen over 3 seasons.

If we had sorted out our midfield and defence I'd be less bothered about taking a gamble on a player who might be okay if things go well. But the midfield needs big upgrades we need to move xhaka on and putting partey's non football stuff to the side, be doesn't look like he can be relied on for big portions of the season as his body isn't up to it.

So that's where I think we should be focusing funds along with improving the defence. We shipped goals like a bottom half of the table team and you won't win big honours like that and we need to improve that side.

goon

Tam

Definitely some merit to what you're saying and we saw Pep take that approach to turn City's season around this year with him abandoning Silva as a LB or playing the other kid. But I suspect it was a needs must solution rather than him changing tack.

Personally, I remember those games against peak Barcelona where the 3rd and 4th best teams in the world were happy to just get into their half. Remember thinking 'if we can just beat their press their defence is shit' - but you spend so much of the game chasing shadows and giving away big chances that you never do beat their press. The few times you do you're so out of rhythm that you can't build a move anyway. It wasn't strong defensive players doing that to us, it was Basquests, Xavi and Initesta, attacking fullbacks and forwards who pressed but didn't particularly enjoy tracking back.

Personally I'd love to achieve superiority by being THAT team. Let the quality and the system do the defending.

FWIW I'm not fully convinced Havertz will be the left 8 and might just be a rotation option for Ode, Saka and Jesus. But personally I love the idea of him being in that position starting with the others, at least in some games.

Qwiss

goon FWIW I'm not fully convinced Havertz will be the left 8 and might just be a rotation option for Ode, Saka and Jesus. But personally I love the idea of him being in that position starting with the others, at least in some games.

Yeah I think he's likely going in the role Diaby was used in.

Then again if Arteta really wants ESR to play in mid Havertz could too. They could rotate but he'll have to change his tactics and I worry about Zinchenko defensively without a more defence minded left 8.

Doc

Tam

Agree in principle but tbh I'm all for playing with an attacking 8.. its the single biggest move we can do to improve our attack (if Arteta think Kai can do that, great) but it will most definitely come at a cost defensively... at a time were we should be looking to shore up even further if we want to go to the next level... Swapping Rice for Party may help but I doubt that is enough... Quite a bit of tactical work will need to be don't to make it work.. or just, you know... get Caicedo Tet!

Clrnc

naz There you go. Mount didn't want to join us.

Clrnc

Both Times and Chelsea ITK said we have submitted our first official bid, 55m pounds

Coombs

That would be a great deal.

KingslandBarge

I was hoping this transfer wouldn't be higher than 50 million. If that rumoured bid is rejected, I hope we tread carefully.

Coombs

Guy is being severely underrated on here. You can win the CL with Kai Havertz.

Clrnc

Coombs Everywhere I read, Arsenal fans are not happy about this and I really don't understand why

QuincyAbeyie

Coombs you can win the CL with every player who was at Chelsea that season.

Qwiss

Clrnc it's because they watched him play for the last 3 years.

Mirth

Clrnc I'm surprised too. Havertz isn't on my wish list and I won't lose any sleep if we don't sign him but I thought the general consensus is that he's a talented player that's been fucked over by Chelsea. Similar to Salah and KdB.

flobaba

You can score the winning goal in the CL final with Havertz...

DiabyKungFu

You can win a treble with Sergio Gomez.

KingslandBarge

Mirth feels like you answered a couple reasons why fans may not be chuffed or happy with the signing in your follow up post: Mirth . Use of funds, uncertainty on position, starting or bench role, debate about his development and consistency in performance over 3 seasons.
lorddulaarsenal Havertz is industrious for sure; he's built that up chasing his first touch over the years.

I'm fine to continue observing how this plays out, and reluctant to prematurely shoot the pursuit down. Not excited to hear rumour we were after Mount. Definitely prefer the Havertz idea over that one (assuming we're looking to bring him in for primary feature at 8)

awooga83

I think the thing I don't get is how can you be so confident the only reason he hasn't performed is Chelsea. It's like everyone seems to say 3 years ago he looked like a great talent. But 3 years actually playing football becomes no you have so strike that from the record it doesn't count.

Even if you don't go down that route 3 years of looking very poor is a pretty bad statement, you have to factor there is at least a 50% chance he's not going to do it based on what he's actually shown measured against potential 3 years ago. Then add the value being talked about I just don't see why we are focusing those funds on him at the moment.

Mirth

awooga83 I think the thing I don't get is how can you be so confident the only reason he hasn't performed is Chelsea. It's like everyone seems to say 3 years ago he looked like a great talent. But 3 years actually playing football becomes no you have so strike that from the record it doesn't count.

I'm not saying that. It's possible that he just isn't good enough but Chelsea, in particular, have a record of ruining anyone who plays their number 9. Particularly since he's unlikely to play in that role for us - by all means, use it as a yard stick but it's not any more definitive than any other reference point.

I'm with you on the allocation of funds but to put it another way if he did recapture he's Leverkusen form then he would certainly be worth £50m.

The harder question for me is where he'd play - I see him more as a classic number 10 but we don't play like that and I'm not convinced he can take up Xhaka's role without us changing the fundamental structure of the team.

Coombs

This "3 years" narrative is not real, though. We spend a lot of energy talking shit on our rivals, but that's not necessarily representative.

I also doubt we'd play him as a CF, but I could be wrong. He's probably wasted there, might be better in deeper positions, could see him owning the Xhaka lane straight up and down the pitch.

One thing I'm pretty unsure about is his stamina. Can tractor up and down the pitch all day?

Edit: watching more, he's really all about understanding space, very intelligent in that way and he could thrive in Arteta's positional play.

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