Arteta, crumbles under pressure?: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta, crumbles under pressure?

Burnwinter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Oh yep. Playing twice a week and re-qualifying for the Champions League because of dodgy lasagne.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Just want to avoid accepting mediocrity as it would put all the efforts of this season to waste.

I think you're in good company - and hands - here.

I don't think Arsenal should ever accept mediocrity - I think Arsene's downfall came when he accepted top 4 as the limits of our ambition and - frankly - was indulged for far too long there. I don't think Mikel Arteta accepts this season as the limit of what we should be aiming for - he said as much yesterday. Whether we can make that final step... as someone said on Twitter the other night, only one team wins the league, but at least we know Mikel is going to do his damnedest to make it happen.

awooga83

RocktheCasbah I think that's my perspective as well. I can separate my disappointment of what happened to our title push with the 2nd place finish. But this season we had no sense we could do that next season will come with a different pressure to replicate some aspect of us being competitive and across multiple competitions.

For all Arteta has done any reforming our recent culture, and I agree he has, the big challenge of recent Arsenal is not just to look a bit plucky and be about the names but fall away, it's to convert that to delivering the big trophies which we've really not been able to do over the last 10 - 15 years in terms of Europe and the league.

For all the positives of Arteta's tenure we haven't been able to take that step yet. To go from neutrals favourite because we're entertaining and create some drama to a little more envy because you manage to win in the end

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Don’t forget he sacrificed all the cups for the league. Was the risk worth the reward?

Didn't we do that last season and you said it was great that we sacrificed the cups as top 4 is more important than trophies?

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie
We have a better squad this year.

Big Willie

I like you @Sicario2 - Tier 1, you're a nice guy, but reading your posts I sometimes forget it's a post from an actual person and not an excerpt from the Sun or Daily Star. I just see a bunch of over the top, sensationalist clichés, one after another.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie
I wear my heart on my sleeve but it’s fine, it’s football, not everyone can agree to everything.

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Never change man.

RocktheCasbah

It's gonna be so hard, because really when we talk about "big trophies", the FA Cup - whether I like it or not - has become devalued. So really, we're talking Premier and Champions League. And we have Manchester City to face in both competitions, as well as a historically ordinary (I would actually say less ordinary) record in Europe. But I sense in Arteta someone who is not just driven by the idea of our success, but is ruthless enough to make it happen - as I expect we will see this summer.

JazzG

Sicario2 - Tier 1 90% of the squad is his and so far his approach is working, we've gone from outsiders to even finish Top 4 to one of the top 2 sides of the country. It has taken time but he also inherited an absolute shit show.

When you look at his comments yesterday doesn't come across as a man who is happy with being 2nd, I think he knows that some players have let him down. Hopefully those players will be replaced and he has the summer to make those moves and take us to the next level.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico For next season, our squad is going to be stretched further than it was this year, so I'm prepared for our league performance to take a hit as a result. Top three would be nice (4th place acceptable), with a decent domestic cup run and reaching the knock-out stages of the CL.

I'm not so sure I would agree here. I think the main challenge now is improve, not sustain. I'd consider a league season similar to this along with a good CL campaign and a good FA cup run to be progress, even if its without a trophy. After that I do have some sympathy for the needing a trophy argument though. I don't think we'll hang onto our best players with a "top 4 is our everything" attitude.

Burnwinter

Qwiss I'd consider a league season similar to this along with a good CL campaign and a good FA cup run to be progress, even if its without a trophy

The minimum criterion for any sort of successful season is continued top four status. Easier said than done with what will be vicious and cashed up competition: it'll be us, City, United, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and even Brighton going into the season with it in their sights. At least Spurs look like they'll accept a season on the outer crying into their pillows.

If we get out of the group and acquit ourselves with some dignity in Europe, and secure top four a bit early while bloodying the noses of our rivals in the league, it'll be an incrementally good season. Anything better than that, like a proper league challenge alongside a run deep into the Champions League elimination rounds would be immense.

If we limp into the top four and fizzle out in Europe, it'll be disappointing.

Any sort of FA Cup run is negotiable, though as you've pointed out every knockout competition was a big fail for Arteta in 22–23.

Clrnc

goon Lol if you offer me one CL title, I don't mind going another 19 years without a league title for that.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Clrnc not for me. I can't take CL winners seriously unless they're also domestic champions or close to being so over an extended period.

Look at 2005 Liverpool and 2012 Chelsea for example.

Qwiss

Burnwinter TBF we went out of the FA cup to City, when it happened is just luck of the draw. Europa was a poor showing though. There is a serious issue with out approach in secondary competitions, if you go out to a side like City fair enough, same in Europe if we lose to the likes of Real, Bayern, etc next season. I'm sick of seeing rotated sides lose to inferior opposition though. there is no reason we shouldn't be able to beat lower and mid level sides in the cups/europe with a rotated squad.

Don Pacifico

Burnwinter The minimum criterion for any sort of successful season is continued top four status. Easier said than done with what will be vicious and cashed up competition: it'll be us, City, United, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and even Brighton going into the season with it in their sights.

Yeah, I think what you've outlined here informs why I'm comfortable with us not getting as close to a title challenge next season. With (a) our squad being stretched further in the CL and (b) likely increased competition at the top of the league means consolidating our place in the top four has some merit. It can't be the long-term ambition though.

RocktheCasbah

That's something that plays into the continued and, even I have to admit now, valid criticism of Arteta though. If he involved more of his fringe element in the matchday - and with 5 subs now - there's no excuse not to, the "second stringers" wouldn't be coming into cup fixtures cold. But then as Claudius has argued previously, would he be more inclined to do it with better squad options? I guess we'll find out next season.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah I don't think he's any choice next season. Half the team were already running on empty after this season, with CL added in we'd be done by Christmas. I think if you look at his reported transfer targets this makes sense too as most are reporting 2 CMs, another winger and a full back. All areas where player levels dropped significantly in the last stretch of the season.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico Interesting.

I mean, we obviously don't know what the effects of the CL will be on the squad, but we do have some idea of Arteta's plans to strengthen it, plans which I think we're in general agreement are quite exciting. One thing that most of the gloating oppo fans have missed in laughing at our failed April is that we were the only team to get anywhere close to City this year. The teams below us have much work to do and Spurs are... well, Spurs.

With the right additions, I think we're well placed to go again. As my old podcast colleague, Matthew, said to me on Twitter on Sunday evening our first XI was essentially unbeaten this season, it's about giving us the options to do something like Pep did on Sunday, rotate 4 first team players out and not miss a beat.

Burnwinter

RocktheCasbah I mean, we obviously don't know what the effects of the CL will be on the squad, but we do have some idea of Arteta's plans to strengthen it, plans which I think we're in general agreement are quite exciting.

I think if we really did add Rice, Caicedo, Unnamed Starting Left Back, Unnamed Starting Right Back, and Unnamed Starting Winger or Centre Forward, we could certainly take on Europe and still do as well (in terms of underlying performances if not results) in the league.

I think a lack of nous is highly likely to undo us in Europe, and I think City are very, very hard to beat by the all time standards, so I'm not going to make a major trophy my criterion of success next season.

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