Arteta, crumbles under pressure?: Page 17 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta, crumbles under pressure?

Qwiss

Burnwinter TBF we went out of the FA cup to City, when it happened is just luck of the draw. Europa was a poor showing though. There is a serious issue with out approach in secondary competitions, if you go out to a side like City fair enough, same in Europe if we lose to the likes of Real, Bayern, etc next season. I'm sick of seeing rotated sides lose to inferior opposition though. there is no reason we shouldn't be able to beat lower and mid level sides in the cups/europe with a rotated squad.

RocktheCasbah

That's something that plays into the continued and, even I have to admit now, valid criticism of Arteta though. If he involved more of his fringe element in the matchday - and with 5 subs now - there's no excuse not to, the "second stringers" wouldn't be coming into cup fixtures cold. But then as Claudius has argued previously, would he be more inclined to do it with better squad options? I guess we'll find out next season.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah I don't think he's any choice next season. Half the team were already running on empty after this season, with CL added in we'd be done by Christmas. I think if you look at his reported transfer targets this makes sense too as most are reporting 2 CMs, another winger and a full back. All areas where player levels dropped significantly in the last stretch of the season.

Don Pacifico

Burnwinter The minimum criterion for any sort of successful season is continued top four status. Easier said than done with what will be vicious and cashed up competition: it'll be us, City, United, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and even Brighton going into the season with it in their sights.

Yeah, I think what you've outlined here informs why I'm comfortable with us not getting as close to a title challenge next season. With (a) our squad being stretched further in the CL and (b) likely increased competition at the top of the league means consolidating our place in the top four has some merit. It can't be the long-term ambition though.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico Interesting.

I mean, we obviously don't know what the effects of the CL will be on the squad, but we do have some idea of Arteta's plans to strengthen it, plans which I think we're in general agreement are quite exciting. One thing that most of the gloating oppo fans have missed in laughing at our failed April is that we were the only team to get anywhere close to City this year. The teams below us have much work to do and Spurs are... well, Spurs.

With the right additions, I think we're well placed to go again. As my old podcast colleague, Matthew, said to me on Twitter on Sunday evening our first XI was essentially unbeaten this season, it's about giving us the options to do something like Pep did on Sunday, rotate 4 first team players out and not miss a beat.

Burnwinter

RocktheCasbah I mean, we obviously don't know what the effects of the CL will be on the squad, but we do have some idea of Arteta's plans to strengthen it, plans which I think we're in general agreement are quite exciting.

I think if we really did add Rice, Caicedo, Unnamed Starting Left Back, Unnamed Starting Right Back, and Unnamed Starting Winger or Centre Forward, we could certainly take on Europe and still do as well (in terms of underlying performances if not results) in the league.

I think a lack of nous is highly likely to undo us in Europe, and I think City are very, very hard to beat by the all time standards, so I'm not going to make a major trophy my criterion of success next season.

Don Pacifico

So yeah, if we do make all those additions, I think it stands us in good stead to go again next season. But I guess I have some scepticism that we'll make the leap we need to in order to have a squad comparable with City.

That plus the fact that until Arteta shows he can rotate effectively, have a deeper squad is a bit of a moot point.

awooga83

Yeah that's a key test for Arteta next season. I don't think he needed to "learn" that your don't rotate you create some big potential issues for the team. I mean I'm that interview he gave sky at around Christmas he acknowledged he thought it was impossible to only utilise the core first team to navigate the post world cup period and yet that ended up being what he pretty much did.

I think that is potentially one of the draw backs of his stubborn mindset. Bringing Saka on in games we'd navigated successful is just a poor decision.

But it can't happen next season his game management and approach to the squad over the season has to improve. We also burned all other comps which was supposed to help our management of that title run but I think that's a one time free hit. Now you have to show you can be competitive in multiple competitions

Clrnc

Yeah. People thought it was harsh but now it's proven to be a valid criticism. He can't juggle multiple competitions and can't rotate as well as he should. Then our season peters out exactly the same away again.

The only hope is that with an extremely strong squad like City in future, no matter if he rotates or not we will just win.

Burnwinter

I think Arteta's the type of guy who'll rotate with total discipline as soon as he fully grasps it's one of the things holding him back. Wouldn't be surprised if we were complaining he rotated too much in twelve months' time. He's always going to be more of an optimiser than an improviser.

Coombs

Burnwinter agreed. It's only a matter of time before he's getting slated for tinkering again.

Gurgen

Burnwinter The main thing is not even rotation for the sake of resting players, but throughout the season you will inevitably have patches where certain players have a bit of a dip. It's great if someone else can come in immediately and do some damage. City have a like-for-like replacement at that point and the guy who comes in sometimes never leaves. Once we are able to do the same we will truly compete, though I wonder if that is possible in this day and age.

banduan

Gurgen You are of course entitled to your opinion. However, you are completely wrong on every objective paramter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Football is not about facts and metrics, it’s about emotions.

then you are also wrong on every subjective parameter.

JazzG

Gurgen Saw some graph posted here a few days ago showing we've had the least changes to our First XI this season, in recent weeks that has shown.

flobaba

We ain't seen nothing yet. Newcastle is probably about to go ballistic in the market this summer (whether or not they make CL). City 2.0. Premier League has to jump in and implement a salary cap or some means of assuring
fair competition and spending limits soon. If not it becomes nothing but a sportswashing/ soft power peddling organization. Watch the Chinese purchase Man U, and Russia & Belarus pick up Tottenham next.

goon

I don't think so, the FFP rules only really allow for around 100m in losses over a 3 year rolling period, which on average works out as 30m per season on average. That's not huge.

If they're smart they can spend big while keeping the wage bill down.

Either way I expect them to find it much harder to establish themselves as City 2.0. For all of City's spending, Pep is the one that's turned that wealth into making them untouchable.

Will be interesting to see what Chelsea do this summer, unless they can raise lots from sales I reckon their hands are tied.

Burnwinter

goon Pep is the one that's turned that wealth into making them untouchable.

Guardiola going to work at Newcastle would be a pretty epic plot twist, I mean obviously I'd hate it, but if I were the showrunner of the Premier League I'd make that the major arc of next season.

Clrnc

They will just inflate their sponsorship like Etihad group and get away with lesser losses

goon

Maybe, will be brave in light of the charges against City though and I don't think the 70% American owned PL clubs will be in any mood to entertain it.

The early impression I get is that the Saudi owners are trying to avoid projecting that image anyway, but time will tell.

goon

JazzG

I think too much is made of that. Someone pointed out that the most successful sides generally make the least amount of changes. Most sides make changes because of injuries, something not working or because they can't decide on who needs to start. City are pretty unique in rotating players just because they can and even they are middle of the table.

Someone also pointed out that Saka has played around 400 mins less than Salah and Mane last season too.

Gurgen is right, it's more about making changes when things are not quite right. Take Saka out for a game to refresh if he's not quite on it, like we've done with Martinelli, and trust Trossard or Nelson to do a job for a game or two and see what they can do. White not quite on it? Give Tomi a little run in the side. Or just bring players on earlier. The world probably wouldn't fall apart and it might have made us a little more resilient when changes were forced upon us.

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