Artetaball Tactics Thread: Page 15 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Artetaball Tactics Thread

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah Wow didn't know that. No matter how bad Arsenal was I always make it a point to watch us.

I think the only matches I missed over the past 5 years are the carabaos without any live coverage and some of the europa group stages under Arteta early days where we were super boring and it was on at 4am local time here

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc It was making me so miserable Clarence, it's not something I felt good about but honestly, if it was a choice between doing something nice with Jo or watching the game - Jo. If it was a choice between Ronnie O'Sullivan (or indeed the snooker World Champs) or the game - then Ronnie.

I always remember the start of that season, going for a Sunday lunch with Jo in Crystal Palace, rushing back to watch us at Liverpool - and watching one of the most disgraceful Arsenal performances I've ever seen. And it seemed to set the tone for our away form that year (just months after watching us ship 3 goals each at West Brom, Crystal Palace & Liverpool in consecutive away games). My uncle definitely wasn't helping at the time, the constant (if understandable) negativity was relentless, so it was just easier to switch off and tell him I wasn't watching. I felt completely and utterly disengaged with the club, resentful of Wenger and guilty at feeling like that about a man who had given me 99% of the best football memories of my life.

And maybe that's part of the reason why I was onboard with Arteta and what he was doing before most of you - if I hadn't quite got my Arsenal back, here was someone who at least got the concept of giving us our Arsenal back. You may not agree with everything he's said and done, but I defy any of you to tell me he doesn't get it.

Burnwinter

Nah, Arteta clearly gets it. I don't think we know for sure if the eventual turnaround after he came on has only been due to his methods and the money spent, or if we actually needed the Arsenal love-in that he also brought with him—along with the young stars he has been lucky to bring on. But it definitely feels today as if the torrid purge of our cynical passengers, and the reassertion of Arsenal identity was key.

daredevil

flobaba

That's exactly it man. A lot of people moaning about our boring play moaned about us lacking structure and discipline under Wenger. It tells you that some people will moan regardless.

Qwiss

daredevil I always said back then that as long as you're winning style doesn't matter. If we've something to play for it's exciting regardless of style. The only difference is when you fail people have less patience.

QuincyAbeyie

Presenting two situations in which a lot of people were moaning will only tell you that some people will moan regardless if those two are the only possible situations.

Were a lot of people moaning before things went to shot last season, for example?

goon

I will give it a bit more time before I form any conclusions on our style of play.

At the moment we're seeing limited chance creation and that's not a feature of any style of play, it's just a feature of something that's not quite working.

Part of that is down to the injuries. But I reckon another big part is a combination of our style of play pinning the opposition back and the opposition playing a lot deeper this season and crowding out the middle. So there will be an adaptation period where we have to work out how to up the tempo in those phases.

flobaba

Yep, the only reason control ball is tolerable for me is it has shown to be effective. We win games, we concede little. I do want to be entertained, but for now (while we solidify our place back among the elite in Europe say over the next two to three years), I'll gladly take it. If after this we don't have a major trophy (league, CL) to show for it then I'm all for switching it up.

lorddulaarsenal

It’s part of the journey we’re on. I think it’s just that the defensive side of our game is now further along the road.

We haven’t really invested heavily in the attack or done any madnesses there yet, whereas the defensive has had a lot of attention recruitment wise. I count Rice and Partey as being defensive minded players

flobaba

Do you guys remember last season? How whenever we went down a goal or needed a goal in the late stages of a game, we could (and would) up the ante, increase the pressure and start peppering the opponents with wave after wave of staccato attacks until they were overwhelmed (I believe Gazza once referred to it as swarm).

We went from that to this.

RocktheCasbah

flobaba yeah well, you say that, but how many times have we gone a goal down this season? Just the three times in the league, I think.

It's clear the balance isn't right, but I do believe the defensive foundation now in place will serve us better in the long run than last season's rollercoaster ride of a team.

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah That's true.

Bottomline for me is that as long as we keep grinding out wins, however boring it is or undeserved it is, I don't care.

When we start losing that's when people will pile on such tactics.

flobaba

RocktheCasbah it's obviously unsustainable. Yes we are more solid defensively. But is the trade off worth it? And does it really have to be a trade off?

I just saw Arteta's post match and one of his comments in response to the interviewer giving us the backhanded cliche compliment of "mark of champions is winning when you're not at your best", was "I think we were at our best today", and that we can't (and no one can) play fluid football against a team that sets up low block like Brentford does.

Is this really true? We are the ones who basically force teams into a low block. What should they do? Just allow Martinelli / Saka rip them a new one? Of course they need to double up. What we need to do which we are not doing is find the resultant spaces elsewhere and exploit them. It would involve taking a few passing risks, doing things a bit faster, creating (and actually using) overloads. And that's what we are unwilling to do now.

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc of course. But in reference to last night particularly, I'm not really sure what people were expecting from us?

Brentford's approach was reminiscent of a cup tie up in the North somewhere, where they were happy to sit deep, defend in numbers, jump out onto any loose balls and then transition up the pitch. I think we've seen enough of these games to know how difficult they are, especially when the first goal doesn't come early in the game.

I do understand that complaints are not just about last night, but the Bees are hardly the first team to deploy this approach against us. In addition, two of our front five only arrived back from South America a couple of days ago, as I said elsewhere, the notion we were just gonna turn up and roll the tanks through the Gtech was not rooted in any sense of reality.

banduan

flobaba there are definitely strategies to beat a low block but it involves changing the team roster significantly. E.g., Newcastle thrive against teams that don't press.

It should not be a surprise that Pool and Citeh both struggle against low blocks as well. At least Pool has Salah to work with.

RocktheCasbah

flobaba I guess I just think you're being incredibly harsh about a team who, whether you like the style of football or not (obviously, not) are sitting top of the league with the best defence stats in said league. And are there despite the season long absences of Timber and, essentially, Partey. Despite Declan Rice being new to the team, despite the fact our preferred front three have started, what, three league games together all season.

None of what you've said can really be argued with, but I think it lacks the context of an incredible amount of change from last season's XI which essentially picked itself, until the injuries came.

goon

flobaba What we need to do which we are not doing is find the resultant spaces elsewhere and exploit them. It would involve taking a few passing risks, doing things a bit faster, creating (and actually using) overloads. And that's what we are unwilling to do now.

You make it sounds so easy!

MistaT

Players who pass and move (like ESR) are made for beating low block teams. The issue then becomes is Arteta willing to give up control of the game (inevitable with those players) to utilize them?

banduan

MistaT Players who pass and move (like ESR) are made for beating low block teams.

only if it's not a very good low block. It's not like Saka and Ode can't do pass and move either.

Qwiss

I think it's as much a personel issue as a tactical one. We need a much better centre forward. Jesus is a good player but he's not a good centre forward.

flobaba

Qwiss While I don't disagree, I think he's adequate. He's levels above what our opponents yesterday had on the field. Individually, for the most part, our players shit all over Brentford's players from a great height.

I think we make this football thing harder than it has to be.

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