Shoulda, woulda, coulda’s: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Shoulda, woulda, coulda’s

Clrnc

lorddulaarsenal That was one player Wenger actually rejected and had doubts so I wouldn't really say we could do anything more about it.

Wenger said he thought his slight frame means he won't be an effective player in our league

Qwiss

Clrnc Wenger said he thought his slight frame means he won't be an effective player in our league

And he wasn't in his first season. He learned to adapt though and its lead to him being one of the best of his generation.

Claudius

est you mean the best?

Pepe LeFrits

SimplyThePest and of course Cesc was two years younger! I don't understand how he didn't develop into one of the GOAT CM contenders.

Burnwinter

Pepe LeFrits I don't understand how he didn't develop into one of the GOAT CM contenders.

I think you can sort of see it in Cesc nowadays, really. He's a bit of a fantasist, his mentality's not quite solid. That's one of the reasons he matured so fast, and also why he had such a torrid filial feeling toward Wenger … and also why he had his head turned so far by the destiny of his "Barcelona DNA".

He's got a brain like a supercomputer, but he's weirdly naive with it, and it led to poor career decisions and an inability to fully mature in stature as a leader and winner. Not that he did badly, he's had loads of success.

Pepe LeFrits

Burnwinter He's got a brain like a supercomputer, but he's weirdly naive with it, and it led to poor career decisions and an inability to fully mature in stature as a leader and winner.

Gosh, I suddenly relate to Cesc a whole lot more 😂

est

Given his playing style and ability, I would have guessed he'd last a lot longer than he did. Guess you can't really evaluate internal motivation as an outsider.

Clrnc

est Yeah seems surreal that he is playing in Italy 2nd division for Como

Burnwinter

😂 Actually, now that you mention it ...

QuincyAbeyie

While Modric is two years older and still starts for RM. He's a freak, though.

Clrnc

Ignoring Modric, even some above average CM like Rakitic is still playing at a very high level for Sevilla.

Heck, that day I just saw Joaquin come on for Betis at almost 42 years old.

Fabregas is not only playing at a low level, but is also struggling to buy a start for them. Ozil similarly can't get a game in Turkish league at the age of 34.

QuincyAbeyie

Fabregas should definitely have had a longer peak, but players peak at different times. Some have retired at his age as well. What were Modric and Rakitic doing at 17?

Clrnc

QuincyAbeyie Actually its not too bad. Just looked it up, Rakitic already a starter for Basel and won young player of the year albeit in Swiss league.

Modric was Bosnian Premier League Player of the Year in his first ever season as a pro footballer at 17-18 years old!

QuincyAbeyie

Not really comparable to what Cesc was doing. If it was, Modric would've been picked up by a top club a lot earlier.

Bryant

The main thing that led to Cesc aging badly was that he became very slow and can barely run around the pitch.

Stark contrast compared to Modric, who looks like Zanetti in terms of stamina and running, and definitely is a freak of nature.

Pepe LeFrits

I wonder what would have happened if we'd re-signed him.

Qwiss

Pepe LeFrits thats just PR. Wenger said he had already been talking to Chelsea before he even heard he was leaving Barca.

Claudius

Central midfielders peak around 27 statistically. And then they quickly hit a performance cliff going into their 30s. Like rapid decline. Modric is a massive outlier in every way. He’s just the best of his generation and it might not be close. Potentially Biscuits comes close.

So Fabregas’ trajectory is not unusual. He just wasted his career under Wenger and then next to Xavi and Iniesta.

Burnwinter

Reckon if we'd signed a real marquee striker in the run from January 2008 to when Cesc left, and strengthened properly as we have these past couple of years, we could have had a couple of titles.

Used to seem illogical back then, but I now speculate KSE was refusing to invest in order to depress our share price a bit while they incrementally scooped up all the other owners' holdings.

JazzG

Qwiss Yup, loved the player and I think this is all PR because in retirement he wants to be associated to the club. The problem for people like him and RvP is they left in such a bitter manner the fans will never accept them with open arms. In retirement a lot of players want that association with a club, whether it is an official or unofficial role.

Michael Owen the same at Liverpool, the Liverpool fans hate the guy.

SimplyThePest

Qwiss Again, it is difficult to know what is true but I recall Mourinho identifying Fabregas as a key second year target in his second stint at Chelsea. If true, it is probable that Chelsea were talking to Fabregas about a move prior to that summer. For some reason, I don't think he really wanted to return to Arsenal unless it was a last resort.

Clrnc

Qwiss That's not true. Wenger himself said he rejected Fabregas more than once too. Their story tallies.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ex-arsenal-boss-arsene-wenger-22855123?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

I side Wenger on this. It might be a mistake but Wenger stands on his principles. If you choose to leave us in our low, you can't come back in our highs.

Furthermore we had first option. If we wanted him Mourinho have no chance

HomeSteak

JazzG pretty much this. I have no love for Cesc. He is a prick.

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