RocktheCasbah I look around the other big squads and none of them have three out and out CFs. I think, in an ideal world we have two players for each position (which will mean we need to bring in a winger or sign Reiss on) and then additional versatile players in the squad that will fill in at CF if and when required. As of now, we will have Trossard, Martinelli, and to a lesser extent ESR who could do that.

I'd love to hold on to as many Hale End talents as possible but somewhere we need to find the right balance and we will need to make some hard calls for that. A bloated squad with unhappy players isn't ideal. Look at what has happened ti Sambi. I don't think he went on loan just because Arteta thought he wasn't ready 18 months after signing him. I think he went on loan because he was unhappy and his attitude wasn't right.

If Jesus is fit, Eddie sits on the bench in the PL and CL and gets sub appearances. And then starts domestic cups while Flo doesn't make the PL and CL squads and sits on the bench and gets sub appearances the cup. We then end up diminishing his value. Similar to what we did with AMN, Chambers etc while he runs down his contract.

      I am Arsenal Till I Die

      I get the concern about Lokonga and the wider issue of bloated squads, it is a fine balance.

      However, to me the notion that we should now be looking for a winger when we have two of the best wide players in the league AND Smith Rowe and Trossard as well as Vieira waiting in the wings (ha!) seems a bit mad to me - and that's without considering Reiss Nelson, which James will probably say we shouldn't be doing.

      When you look at what's happened with Gabriel Jesus injury, we are now currently relying on Eddie Nketiah to stay fit until Jesus comes back - we don't know how long it will take him to get up to speed. So, we're one injury away from having to make do at centre forward; Trossard &/or Martinelli might be able to do a job there, but how good do you feel about betting the house on them doing so when there's a league title on the line?

      As for next season, Arsenal are, I think it's fair to assume, likely to play more than 50 games next season. We've been lucky in some regards that Jesus injury came during the World Cup as once through Christmas, Arsenal's fixture schedule has been relatively light (bizarrely, our only PL fixtures currently scheduled for midweek are the Man City ones). The same injury this time next year would be more problematic.

      Just go to go back to your starting point, which was

      I am Arsenal Till I Die The way I see it, I don't think we can have both him and Eddie in the squad. If we get a good offer for him, we should sell.

      I just think it's way too early to say we should write Balogun off and get rid of him this summer. He could end up saving Arsenal millions in the market, especially this transfer market which Chelsea have rendered absolutely ridiculous. It's actually something I was thinking about the other day. Arsenal can hardly plead poverty in relation to most clubs in the PL, but what Chelsea have done this winter has been obscene really & perhaps we do need to focus more on developing our own players, it's not like we don't have a track record.

      I realise having written everything I have above that what is more likely to happen than anything else is that he will probably go on loan again - and I'd probably be okay with that. But sell him? Not yet, not for me.

            RocktheCasbah I understand the point but I think both of us are making arguments based on different potential circumstances (Jesus getting a long-term injury v not getting injured at all). My only qualm with your logic is that we can argue that about any position in the squad, no?

            For instance, we have Jorginho as a Partey back-up now. If Partey gets injured at any point next season (which he is prone to), Jorginho will have to play all the minutes in his position next season. Same with Tomiyasu or Trossard and so on. We cannot have three players in each position.

            I think the key to good squad management is having a high-functioning, lean but versatile squad. City seem to do that as well with having a core of 16/17 core players and that is what we should build towards. Think Bernardo who plays on the wing and in midfield, same with Foden, Ake, Stones etc. I can't think of many teams who have three players for a single position. The third choice is almost always a makeshift.

            RocktheCasbah realise having written everything I have above that what is more likely to happen than anything else is that he will probably go on loan again - and I'd probably be okay with that. But sell him? Not yet, not for me.

            And honestly, I will be fine with that. My initial point was that accommodating both in the squad might stall the development of Balogun especially after the stellar season he is having in France. Imagine going from scoring 20 goals in the season to not making the matchday squad and having to play with the U21s to stay match fit.

            If we can get him to sign an extension and get him a PL loan, that would be a great option too. But he is going to want to play, that is for sure.

                  I am Arsenal Till I Die Yeah, that's fair. I just feel centre forward is quite a specific position to have to make do in (I'm still scarred by the memory of Arshavin being monstered by Ferdinand & Vidic at the Emirates in 2010...) And I think Jesus ability to play from the right not only gives us the option to rest the Ealing legend, but to create space in the team for Nketiah AND Balogun (without factoring in injuries, which will inevitably happen). Although I'm not suggesting this will happen often.

                  Interestingly, in the light of Balogun's hat-trick last night, Arseblog's been having a similar discussion - only, with himself!

                  https://arseblog.com/2023/02/baloguns-goalscoring-opens-doors-for-him-and-arsenal/

                  • goon replied to this.

                      People need to stop being sentimental about young academy players

                      50 games or not, the starter usually plays 70% of the games barring injury

                      This isn't football manager where you're rotating 3 players over a season

                      At the end of the day, the club needs to make the right decisions to get the best players for each position

                        Gunner89 Sure, but given that most people weren't convinced by Eddie even after last season's run in, I don't think it is, or should be, a black and white decision. I understand people's fears of risking another AMN situation, where we have completely fucked his value, but I think we have a bit more time here.

                        Also, is there some sort of rule against having sentimental fans? The whole point of watching football is, for me, allowing yourself to dream. As a decision maker at Arsenal, Edu doesn't have that luxury, but I do.

                          Gunner89 think it's tricky to find a good balance between sentimentality, pragmatism and ambition as fan/fanbase/club. If one can even put those to a venn diagram. I would hate to be one of the fanbases with no sentimentality, and players treated like cattle (over towards putney bridge for e.g.). Think of some of us can recalibrate, for sure. I prefer to be a sentimental slut.

                          In order not to have to make tough decisions with players we really like/rate, I would really like Edu generate profits from the other players. I can just, just about excuse him last 2 years struggling to content with outside perceptions/perceived value on players like Guendouzi, Kolasinic, Mari, Torriera. I actually think those are some decent players. It felt like he had to sell Willock because he couldn't source value elsewhere. I am expecting more than that this time around.
                          We should be aiming to break even on players like Mari, Soares, Holding(if he leaves). We should be prepping for substantive profit if we need to flip Tavares, Balogun. If it makes sense, we should be aiming to renegotiate terms with Nelson, Trusty, Balogun, Pépé with new sell clauses, or with intent to sell. Generate something healthy from the first two categories I listed earlier this week, and it doesn't even have to get to thinking about Smith-Rowe or Tierney.

                          FWIW I like both and don't want them sold. It's only about injury/availability with Smith-Rowe for me, and I otherwise questioned the Mudryk pursuit. I feel a confident Tierney as an overlapping FB is a really nice asset in the team. Maybe another development challenge for Arteta as manager is to weave in alternative tactics and sets that sometimes accommodate and complement the strengths of some his players, rather than only finding and fitting players in to predefined profiles. Used differently, Tierney would be racking up assists and goals like Chillwell and Reece-James I feel.


                            Gunner89 People need to stop being sentimental about young academy players

                            I choose to be sentimental about our own players. It's okay.

                              RocktheCasbah rom the right not only gives us the option to rest the Ealing legend, but to create space in the team for Nketiah AND Balogun

                              How many games is that really going to create though, half a dozen? That's assuming you don't want to play Trossard, ESR, Vieira or a potential new signing out there.

                              Balogun and in particular Eddie deserve/need to be starting 20+ games next year. That may just about be possible if one of them is competing with Jesus. Give them 10 games each and you're sabotaging both of them imo.

                              Balogun is still 21 which is young, I don't really see any rush to integrate him. Give him a more challenging loan next year where he can continue to play and develop.

                                  goon Balogun is still 21 which is young, I don't really see any rush to integrate him. Give him a more challenging loan next year where he can continue to play and develop.

                                  And as I said, I think that is the most likely scenario.

                                    goon Balogun is still 21 which is young, I don't really see any rush to integrate him. Give him a more challenging loan next year where he can continue to play and develop.

                                    You can’t give the top scorer in Ligue 1 a more challenging loan next season. You would just frustrate him. He needs to come home and fight for his palace.

                                    And maybe there is a difficult conversation about how to uses Jesus next year - give him some right wing minutes, but overall we should have enough important games for everyone. With Balo, Jesus and Trossard on board, I think that we can really sub our front 3 each game, give the opponent fresh players to think about for the last 20 minutes

                                        I don’t understand why we would loan him out. That early season when we were playing Tumbleweed FC, he would start all those games next year against Milan and Porto.

                                        Claudius Yep, and someone with Balogun ability is not going to be happy being loaned out again. Agree with you.

                                            A loan to a PL club would probably be the best thing for his development, but I don't think he'd like it either, and it's pretty understandable if he keeps going like this.

                                            You guys aren't doing the math. There's no scenario where you keep all 3 happy by keeping them around. There's no scenario where Jesus is happy playing less than 70% of available games. There's no scenario where Eddie is happy starting fewer games than this season at 24. There's no scenario where 'Ligue 1s top scorer' is either happy or developing playing a bit part role.

                                            Fabio Vieira who has arguably been first choice backup for 3 positions this season has started just 8 games. It probably would have been less if we were playing Milan and Porto rather than Tumbleweed FC.

                                            I'd understand if we still had Auba and Laca here stinking the place up. But unfortunately for Balo he's got two guys performing very well and heading into their prime ahead of him.

                                            Also think there's a bit of projecting going on with whether or not he'd be happy with a loan. Reckon he'd absolutely love playing week in week out in a top half PL side or a good European side. We then give ourselves 12 extra months to make a more informed decision.

                                            I’d sell Balogun in the summer. He’s getting numbers in Ligue Une but I’m just not keen on his overall game. It’s not dynamic enough.

                                            Cash in whilst he can command a lot

                                            Just a poor man’s Nketiah

                                            Clrnc I don't see why not. Doesn't it depend on the loan? Being loaned out is not an insult for a young, developing player - it's what they are usually demanding so they can advance their careers. The whole "stay and fight for my place" mentality seems a bit misguided, unless you're 24/25 or you've got some serious indication from the coach that there is a vulnerability in the squad you could exploit.