General Football : Page 26 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

General Football

MistaT

——-—— Rice ——
—— Palmer — Bellingham——
— Saka — Watkins — Grealish

Need some pace ahead of Palmer and Saka.

Clrnc

daredevil Tuchel is probably the best manager currently in international football. Maybe Pochettino comes close but that's it. The rest are some journeyman.

Not to mention, Tuchel is a very good cup manager

daredevil

Clrnc

There’s a distinction to be made. He’s the best club manager. International football is a completely different beast.

International managers have what, 4 weeks or something in total with the players interspersed over a season? How much coaching and tactical training can really be done in that time span to players who are drilled to play their clubs way?

International football is more about man management, choosing the best combinations rather than the best players and creating a positive atmosphere.

banduan

Go ahead and fail early, Tommy Tuckers.

Asterix

The Daily Mail already coming out against this appointment. The British media will turn and turn hard.

But as ever I enjoyed Barney Ronay's take - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/15/thomas-tuchel-england-manager-intriguing-choice-makes-sense

"Will Tuchel sing God Save the King? Probably yes, and with an amusing gusto (the eponymous King is, for what it is worth, more German than English). Will he sing Ten German bombers? And if he does not, how outraged should we feel at this further act of cultural betrayal?"

Don Pacifico

daredevil International football is more about man management, choosing the best combinations rather than the best players

Interesting you mention that. Friend at work made this point along with the fact that Tuchel has a track record of falling out with people.

Clrnc

daredevil Roberto Martinez is a decent club manager. He turned out to be a very decent international manager too. In fact you will find that most good club managers will turn out well in international football. Hiddink, Nagelsmann, Del Bosque, Lippi just to name a few. It's the easier job afterall.

Thus the reverse is often not true as well. Managers who made their name in international football often sucked when they get a club job as they are not capable enough to deal with the intricacies of day to day.

invisibleman18

daredevil He’s the best club manager.

This the guy who couldn't win the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich and Kane up front isn't it?

daredevil

Clrnc

I'm not saying Tuchel that won't be a good International manager. I'm challenging your claim that England will start winning World Cup's and Euro's with him.

goon

Roberto Martinez is a bigger fraud than Bernie Madoff.

There's a completely different focus for international football. You don't have the time to have a detailed tactical plan, so you need tactical flexibility and simplicity combined with great man management.

Anchelotti would probably make a very good international manager.

Don Pacifico

goon Roberto Martinez is a bigger fraud than Bernie Madoff.

A million times this.

Mirth

daredevil In the past few tournaments, England have come within a game or two of winning the trophy. It's not unreasonable to believe that a better manager than Southgate could do more - particularly if said manager performs better in cup competitions anyway.

daredevil

Mirth

Depends entirely on what you think of Southgate's reign. In terms of outcomes, his team produced the joint-second best ever finish in a World Cup and twice best ever finish in a Euro's. That's not as easy to achieve as people seem to deludedly think. That's only been bettered once in 22 World Cup's, and not once in 17 Euro's. But let's keep peddling the narrative that anyone half competent would do a better job that his critics are doing.

Mirth

daredevil Tuchel isn't half competent. He's a well regarded coach and he is a better manager than Southgate.

If England appointed Howe or Carsley then you might have a point but it's a pretty reasonable expectation to believe that a CL winning coach can achieve success with this England squad. And saying this doesn't insult the achievements of Southgate either.

QuincyAbeyie

As opposed to the narrative that looking at England's placements in the tournaments and ignoring everything else is the only way to assess whether Southgate is a good manager. It suggests that watching games is actually irrelevant because you can just look up at Wikipedia who the good managers are.

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

That's a lot of assumptions on your part. No-one said it's irrelevant, but everything else is far less significant than tournament placements.

Clrnc

Apparently Tuchel signed the contract on 8th and Carsley already knew, which is why he subsequently said he was not interested in the job after he was overlooked.

Also interesting that Lineker said England did not approach any English manager and their top choice was Ancelotti.

daredevil

Mirth

Let's see that happens. Although, we've been here before with Sven and Capello.

Mirth

daredevil agree, but I reject the comparison with Capello and Sven because the only thing they all have in common is that they are 'foreign'.

daredevil

Mirth

I was drawing a comparison to Sven and Capello because they too were credible managers who had won league titles, not because they were foreign.

Clrnc

daredevil You didn't add any context though and simply looked at the end results again.

Capello had to deal with one of the worst generation of English footballers.

Sven only got knocked out by very good teams and was genuinely unlucky (twice through PK shootout and once against one of the greatest Brazilian teams)

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