Joao Felix: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Joao Felix

goon

QuincyAbeyie we can certainly do better than Elneny/Sambi but in reality we're never going to sign anyone that could adequately replace Partey. He's too good and too important. You need your most important players to stay fit for the large majority of the season.

HomeSteak

JazzG

That is quite a hefty fee, I think their asking price will come down eventually unless Chelsea or Man Utd get desperate! Which is something you can’t rule out.

Think his addition would give our squad a massive boost going into a crucial few months. Having him on loan would also give the coaching staff time to really assess whether a permanent move is worthwhile. There have been questions about his mentality, his talent can’t be questioned though.

Clrnc

Also says Partey helping to convince him to come here.

QuincyAbeyie

I'd assume such a high loan fee would be somewhat compensated for in an eventual buyout option, kind of like a hedge for them if the loan doesn't go well.

It's very high though. But would anyone without the ten Hag connection choose them over us at the moment? We're both a much better team, look like a better place for attackers to thrive and have our base in London compared to Manchester.

banduan

we do need another striker but it's nonsense money for a 6-month loan. Atletico can f off.

goon

This is what happens when United are in for someone you want.

Gazza M

this does seem like the kind of deal mendes would bilk united for. hopefully we're just using it as leverage in our dealings with shaktar

Clrnc

I am actually desperate to see someone as good as Felix don an Arsenal shirt so I couldn't care less about the fees.

Kroenke has unlimited funds technically so yeah

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Clrnc yep. He's an unreal talent. Really want this to get done.

goon

Clrnc the issue is FFP and club losses though not how much Stan has to spend. Spending £20m on Felix for 6 months is insane. It’s basically suggesting he’s a £250m player.

You can’t ditch the model that got us here just because the finish line is in sight.

Burnwinter

goon You can’t ditch the model that got us here just because the finish line is in sight.

Not saying that this isn't true, but even signing Mudryk for the fees that are being bandied around stretches any sense of a model.

We're heading into an uncanny zone. We'll likely never see an Arsenal season start this well again with these players or manager. This is the moment to go for it.

goon

Burnwinter

The model isn't about not spending, it's about spending with the medium-long term success of the project squarely in mind. We got here by following that idea, so now that we're close I don't really get why abandoning it now in favour of desperation is the way to go.

Why won't we see this again? Most of our players are a couple of years away from reaching their prime never mind ending it. Liverpool are a great example of what we should be going for, trying to sustain elite football that can win us the biggest trophies for as long as possible and the way to do that is to stick with the plan.

If Felix is a long term target that fits into the plan then maybe there's a deal to be made. If it was a permanent deal I'd be more open to overspending even if I see adding him to Mudryk, Saka, Martinelli, Jesus, ESR, Vieira and Eddie as an indulgence when you have two players in midfield that are getting on.

Burnwinter

goon Why won't we see this again?

Klopp's Pool are a great example.

Here's a list of best ever Premier League season starts after matchday 16.

You'll notice we're at 21st place on 37 points with the Invincibles in 18th place on 38.

Of the 20 season starts ahead of our start this year, 16 are in the "post-Mourinho" era.

Klopp's Pool have two entries, one from the year they won (18–19) and one from last year when they got pipped (21–22).

In this era, you've usually got to be as perfect as we are this season (or better) to win the league. So you have to strike on the rare occasions you get the chance. Klopp's Pool prove the point: an impeccable side for years and years that only ever won the league once—and that squad's now finished.

There's no "fervour or desperation" about it, in fact that amounts to fear of success. Even the amounts of money involved (Félix's mooted €15m loan fee, or paying 30% more than expected for Mudryk etc) are modest compared to the financial benefits of victory, let alone that this Arsenal squad should be here to win the league …

Burnwinter

goon You keep saying this like the crux of my issue is that I don't want to spend money

Not at all old bean. My issue throughout is that you don't seem to have woken up to the fact what's best for the "medium-long term success of the project" (as below) is winning the league, this season.

There's also a hint of lacking ruthless dedication to the objective of winning the league for football's sake, but I'm not going to charge you with that.

I am not saying we should make irrational deals, but I would happily trash one of our players' careers, go big on a transfer that doesn't pan out after this season, etc if it decisively boosted our title chances. Mudryk or Félix could've gained us two points today.

goon The model isn't about not spending, it's about spending with the medium-long term success of the project squarely in mind.

Big Willie

Burnwinter Klopp's Pool are a great example.

Here's a list of best ever Premier League season starts after matchday 16.

You'll notice we're at 21st place on 37 points with the Invincibles in 18th place on 38.

Of the 20 season starts ahead of our start this year, 16 are in the "post-Mourinho" era.

Klopp's Pool have two entries, one from the year they won (18–19) and one from last year when they got pipped (21–22).

In this era, you've usually got to be as perfect as we are this season (or better) to win the league. So you have to strike on the rare occasions you get the chance. Klopp's Pool prove the point: an impeccable side for years and years that only ever won the league once—and that squad's now finished.

There's no "fervour or desperation" about it, in fact that amounts to fear of success. Even the amounts of money involved (Félix's mooted €15m loan fee, or paying 30% more than expected for Mudryk etc) are modest compared to the financial benefits of victory, let alone that this Arsenal squad should be here to win the league …

Whilst I agree with your point on the whole, and agreed it will be difficult to get this chance again, your point would be even more emphasised if the numbers were correct in that list. We have 43 points from 16 games, meaning we are joint 3rd on the list with only Liverpool 19/20 and City 17/18 ahead of us on that list. For some reason they've counted our points after only 14 games.

Coombs

If you were Kroenke and Arteta said, "give me another $22.5m over and above Mudryk + CM and I'll win you the league," would you do it?

That's the only question, for me. Even if we broke FFP, wouldn't that just mean we have a certain timeframe to come into compliance?

Burnwinter

Coombs Even if we broke FFP, wouldn't that just mean we have a certain timeframe to come into compliance?

It would earn us (and save us) so much money to win the league this season—I predict that sponsorship upside and player retention alone would outpace a Félix loan fee. Never mind attracting new stars. As far as FFP is concerned, if we won, we'd be in a better place than now.

So as you said it's about whether or not we win the league and whether or not any winter signings are decisive. We need forward reinforcements to ensure cover for suspensions and injuries. And aside from speculation about Mudryk and Félix, we remain vulnerable in Partey's position.

JazzG

One thing is about the current regime have taken over we run a much more tighter operation. Our sales to be fair have been shit but generally we've purchased young players on reasonable salaries. Some of the fees have been on the higher side but some (Ben White for example) but right now they look like good deals.

We need to stick to that, if Felix wants to join then he needs to lower his demands and push his club. The guy is insanely talented but we aren't his get out of Atletico card. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire at Atletico and there is no guarantee he would come here and hit the ground running. Some players need 6-12 months to really find their feet.

He also needs to want to join us and be willing to make that happen. I'd rather we spend that money on trying to beef up at CM then £20m for a 6 month loan. We are one Partey injury away from our season falling apart.

QuincyAbeyie

The way I see it, the only way money should ever matter for fans is when asking the question "could we have improved more by spending it differently?" If the answer seems to be no then I don't care how much Felix costs.

Claudius

It matters how much Felix costs.
The main thing here is Atletico really fucked up when they bought him. They tried to appease their fans when they sold Griezmann and took the shortcut of spending all the Griezmann money on the new hype who had an equivalent release clause, without even considering the fit with Simeone’s insomnia-curing football. And now they want us to right their wrongs.

I love Joao Felix, but not at £120m or £20m for a half season loan. Extrapolate that £20m for 5 full seasons to get a sense of what the the implied TCO would be for him. Atletico are having a laugh and it cannot be at our expense.

goon

I don't think Felix goes anywhere near guaranteeing us the league either. I really like him as a player and have advocated us signing him a few times but he's done nothing in his career to suggest that he could even adapt to the PL in the next 4 months never mind push us over the edge.

I also think people fall into the trap of thinking more is automatically better. It completely discounts the squad management and morale aspect. Martinelli and Saka will want to play. We're going to be spending 60m odd on Mudryk, he will want to play. Eddie has be sitting patiently on the bench for months and will expect to play every min while Jesus is out. ESR has been side-lined for months and will want to make up for lost time. Vieira will be wanting more mins than the odd 5 min cameo he's already been getting. None of these guys will be happy about some loan signing coming in and taking their mins.

Of course fighting for the big trophies means serious competition is both necessary and expected, but that's why we're signing Mudryk for big money in a position we already have 3 of the best talents in europe.

Don Pacifico

goon
Agree with everything you've said. Also the old adage of not changing a winning team seems worthy of consideration at this point. As you allude to, Felix is far from a certainty so difficult to figure out whether bringing him in at this stage would do more harm than good. The dynamic in the dressing room seems to be great at the moment.

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