Thomas Partey - the footballer: Page 9 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Thomas Partey - the footballer

Tam

He wasn’t found to be innocent, he was found to be not guilty. There’s a slim but distinct difference.

Meatwad

Tam
is there a way to be found innocent in a court of law? they find you guilty or not guilty.

flobaba

Tam innocent until proven guilty. That's the assumption right?

Qwiss

flobaba So what happens to the people who accuse someone of rape if they are found to be innocent?

This doesn't mean he didn't do it. It means there wasn't enough evidence to prove he did it. So that begs the question why should anything happen to those who make accusations. Can you prove they were lying?

Tam

Qwiss The David Goodwillie case I’ve referenced before is a good example here. Found not guilty in a criminal court where the burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, yet found guilty in a civil case where burden of proof is on the balance of probabilities.

Clrnc

Pepe LeFrits

I've spoken to him once on facetime... fucking moron.

RowJimmy

flobaba
As far as the state depriving you of your liberty, yes, "beyond a reasonable doubt" or some such.
As far as other people judging your character, more of a sliding scale, "preponderance of the evidence" etc.

Tam

flobaba almost - that’s the presumption. There is a presumption of innocence unless proven guilty, or for those acquitted or charges like Mendy was. You can make your own judgement as to the strength of evidence against him but the jury are constrained by reasonable doubt. I followed the news stories and certainly wouldn’t consider him innocent.

flobaba

Tam Fair enough. I didn't follow the case so I can't comment.

naz

Tam I've been reading more about Mendy and it's so odd. It seems like there was collusion against him by a bunch of women. There might be some elements of innocence there... Also seems like everyone in the Manchester night life scene knew he was innocent for years. It's all weird because the reports paint a crazy story about his life.

goon

Either way, footballers need to be educated on how to behave. Too many of these guys have no idea about boundaries, what’s right or wrong morally never mind legally, they just get lost in the money, fame and attention.

Have more and more respect for Per’s approach to the academy producing good people who are mentally prepared before good footballers.

JazzG

goon Agree but the same can be said for a lot of young men who have a lot of money. You get some women who literally throw themselves at these guys so I wonder if subconsciously they think all women are like that. Clearly men need to understand boundaries but a lot of this shit happens with drugs/alcohol involved so those boundaries become a lot blurrier.

I'd be interested to see some more analysis into this case because reading that some of the women's cases looked clearly bogus whereas some had a lot more credibility. Read he was unanimously acquitted but I can't really comment as not read into this.

A fair few footballers coming out in support of Mendy today as well, which is surprising as I thought most wouldn't want to touch this news with a barge pole.

daredevil

JazzG

Nobody said it better than Bill Burr. You've got hordes of women throwing themselves at these successful men and no man is setup to deal with that level of attention and directness from the opposite sex. The man is by default the guilty party until proven innocent and the women is by default the victim until proven guilty.

I'm not excusing Partey or Mendy, as I frankly haven't followed it or give a shit in all honesty. I have two friends who have been scarred by sexual assault allegations, the first in a nightclub where he's chatting to a girl for 10 minutes and then places his hand on her upper back/shoulder (I saw the footage), only for her colleague to retrospectively push the receiving girl to file a sexual assault claim. This was at the height of the #metoo hysteria. Poor guy had his house raided and shamefully arrested.

The second is where two girls, friends of his ex, colluded to put an allegation (his ex showed the group chat) against my friend because he hung out with them on separate occasions in the gym (he's a PT) but didn't make a move. They got the impression he was interested in them but wasn't. Ended up getting fired and is now suing the company.

lorddulaarsenal

Allegedly the accused individual has put in a counter claim that they were woken with an unconsented HJ.

Meatwad

damn, you gotta do what you gotta do when people are coming for you, but if women are going to need consent before they give me a handy then i don't want to be in this timeline anymore. i'm always ready, even in my sleep.

Clrnc

naz if he's really innocent and got lured into those situations by their plot then gotta feel for him. His career is totally destroyed and he's not getting anything back now

DiabyKungFu

Clrnc His career is totally destroyed and he's not getting anything back now

It definitely sucks to have your name dragged through the mud just to be judged not guilty, but I think this is a bit overstated. As it so happens, I believe the end of the case coincided with the end of his contract so it's not like he missed out on any money. I also would be surprised if he doesn't sign with a Ligue 1 or better club for this season.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

daredevil pathetic.

Burnwinter

In England and Wales, more than 99% of rapes reported to police do not end in a conviction. This is the result of a criminal justice system that makes prosecuting rape extremely rare, lengthy and difficult.

At present, charge rates for rape vary wildly between regions, from 1.3% in Surrey to 8.2% in Durham. Cases take, on average, 817 days to reach court, and 63% of cases are closed because the victim has given up on the process and withdrawn from it.

https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2022/04/new-scorecards-show-under-1-of-reported-rapes-lead-to-conviction-criminologist-explains-why-englands-justice-system-continues-to-fail

With a conviction rate as low as 7 percent (Home Office and Ministry of Justice data, 2013) – one of
the lowest in Europe (Lovett and Kelly 2009) – one might argue that in England and
Wales rape is effectively ‘decriminalized’ (Gregory and Lees, 1999: 91).

https://sci-hub.st/https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1477370815571949

Tactics

Burnwinter I mentioned these stats to someone and he informed me the conviction rate once the case reaches court is actually quite high. I have done some googling and it looks like he wasn't chatting bollocks:

Once a rape case reaches court, juries in England and Wales are more likely to convict than acquit a defendant, and this has been the case for at least 15 years

The research, published in the Criminal Law Review, examined all charges, pleas and jury verdicts for all defendants in the Crown Court in England and Wales over a 15-year period from 2007-2021. The study analysed almost six million charges against defendants and includes every single verdict reached by a jury on rape charges in this period (68,863 jury verdicts by deliberation).

In 2021, the most recent year with full data, the jury conviction rate for all rape charges was 75%, up from 55% in 2007. The finding that juries convict more often than they acquit defendants in rape cases was also true regardless of the age or sex of the rape complainant.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/feb/juries-convict-defendants-rape-more-often-acquit#:~:text=The%20study%20analysed%20almost%20six,up%20from%2055%25%20in%202007.

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