Hello Zinchenko: Page 17 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Hello Zinchenko

Sicario2 - Tier 1

He’s lost the fan base and it’s no going back.

Play Tomi in Munich.

QuincyAbeyie

So dramatic. Did you not watch Xhaka? There's always a way back if you play well.

I'd also play Tomi in Munich though.

FEBravo

I'm not his biggest fan but in fairness if Havertz scores from one of his balls over the top we'd be having a very different conversation. For the record, I don't think his attacking contributions now compensate for his defensive frailty, and especially not against a team like Bayern, but it's much more nuanced than that. I'd definitely play Tomi

JazzG

Gurgen I agree he was a liability but he also created a bunch of big chances which our attackers ruined in various ways.

Exactly, I swear the way people have turned on him isn't right and shows what kind of fanbase we have.

Though he doesn't help himself with his defensive cock ups. I do wonder why we don't play him in midfield more, he seems to do alright for Ukraine there and we have issues finding the right midfield balance.

Claudius

I’m a big supporter of this guy. I thought he gave us real stability versus Bayern and was good in the first half against Villa when we should’ve taken advantage.
But some of the stuff he did in the second half had me stewing. Was very annoyed. I’m more forgiving of him being ‘out of position’ on defense because he starts at DM a lot of the time. But stuff like Tielemans is just not on for a top professional.

And it’s consistently a second half thing. He just drops, particularly from the 60th minute. That suggests to me he can’t survive long under this regime.

Don Pacifico

I'd love to see if he was as error prone last season as my memory tells me he wasn't but may be rose-tinted specs.

I can tolerate a mistake here or there but that Tielemans opening was extraordinarily bad.

Claudius

Don Pacifico I’m waiting for this guy to release his GPA chart for yesterday, but you can see the one from the Bayern game, Zinchenko was very useful. Came on at halftime and was our third most productive passer for the entire game, without committing many turnovers.

I expect the left hand side of the graph for the Villa game will be worse because he seemed to have more giveaways. What this chart won’t show you is off-the-ball value add on defence, which is where Zin had bigger issues yesterday. You can see some off the ball value add on offense from balls received.

goon

He's dense and panicky. But what makes him dangerous is that he thinks he's clever and calm.

Claudius

goon I think he has a stamina issue. His mind and body go as games wear on. And then mistakes build. I’m sure if you did an error chart, you’d see a high concentration of foolishness late in games.

It actually makes me think of Ramsdale also saying he’s prone to his mind wandering during games. The type of pressing and passing game we play does not accommodate wandering minds

Big Willie

goon But what makes him dangerous is that he thinks he's clever and calm.

This has been my biggest issue with him. He has this supreme (over?)confidence that leads him to taking outrageous risks, which can be a good thing if you are Thierry. Hell even as an average forward it's ok at times. Not so much if you are a defender.

Even less so when you are a defender who, despite knowing full well that there's no way you're getting back if you turn the ball over, you end up holding onto it for too long and try to dribble through a bunch of guys with no one behind you to cover your vacated space. I don't mind his risky passing as long as it's not a square ball in the middle of the field, what I do mind is his eagerness to ride challenges like he's prime Messi.

Tam

goon Reminds me of Flamini at times in that sense. General level and talent is worlds apart, but he has a touch of the Flamini about him with his outbursts and emotions too.

Clrnc

When it comes off his nutmegs and tricks look brilliant. But when it doesn't it looks so stupid especially to attempt it in defence.

If Arteta is keen to play him back in his natural position I'm all for it.

If not then he is dispensable

Qwiss

Clrnc the thing is those bits of skill look great but how often do they make a game changing positive difference? And then compare it to how they hurt us when he messes it up?

MistaT

I think it’s asinine to play him in a back line that is already hampered by dodginess from Raya and Gabriel. That’s only been magnified as of late as the pressure has ramped up.

Further, I don’t think his progressive passing and control is necessary anymore. We control games fine, what we need is stability so our wide forwards can play further upfield and more goals (which Kiwior offers as well as Zinchenko).

awooga83

Qwiss this and the harsh truth is if he was considered a midfielder he is nowhere near good enough to play that position. He's slow on the ball and he gets his chances because he abandons his defensive duty and teams can see that and target it. He's always came with a risk reward call but the rewards aren't there this year and lots of really poor decision making has made us significantly more vulnerable and we've relied on others to do two roles to cover him which has hurt them. It's not really different to Jesus, they are good squad players to bring on but you don't want to rely on them if you want to win a title they aren't good enough.

Claudius

Our basic problem is this - we are chasing City, a team that leaves very little margin for error. It means you can’t afford wasteful, slothful, negligent, absent-minded, careless, hapless, witless, talentless or otherwise deficient characters on the field for extended periods.

Meatwad

well no team with zinchenko in midfield is serious about winning things, so dead this "natural position" stuff.

est

Say what you want about the role he played in those City title-winning teams, but you can't deny the impact he made for them this season. Another Pep masterstroke?

Gazza M

think theres been a daisy chain of victims of this seasons midfield reshuffle, with zincehnko and martinelli being the main examples. the xhaka-partey fulcrum made zins life easier in terms the defensive cover he would receive, the ball posession he could recycle with them and the openings it would create for him to find martinelli. imo this is a big reason why his impact on the ball has been somewhat neutered.

Gunner89

Much like jesus, his games should be confined to a few as a back-up and those where we can get by with his defensive frailties

Don't forget he was responsible for our poor form in the winter with the errors at Liverpool, villa park and another against some relegation outfit when we were 1-0 up and their forward missed.

Forget the offsides, he was partly responsible when Watkins hit the post, fully responsible when tielemans hit the post and went for a walk for the bailey goal.

Disaster

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