Hello Zinchenko: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Hello Zinchenko

Tam

Clrnc Your sample size is about half a dozen games. In a season where Saka has been notably below the performance levels we'd expect of him for large spells. Not sure you've a strong basis for your argument.

flobaba

Tam I think White's offensive contributions are overrated personally. For someone who allegedly has such good chemistry with Saka/ is a threat offensively, where are the assist stats?

But even more importantly, I think Arteta values defensive solidity in his defenders more than he does offensive output.

All that said, you're probably right about the availability aspect. In that regard there is no real comparison / competition.

awooga83

Qwiss I think he slows us down to much when he gets on the ball. Not a good defender but also not good enough to be a full midfielder. I just think we need something more then what he offers for the most part.

Qwiss

awooga83 I think without him yesterday we struggle to get he ball forward. He was stepping in and doing the Partey/Jorginho work. He's a bit slower at it than Partey but he's still better in games like this when Partey or Joringho aren't there. This was very much a "Zinchenko game". I'd be happy to sell in the summer though.

awooga83

Lukazan that's been a flaw in him forever. That Southampton game after messing up he's calling a huddle to get people to come together and shake them up after he made the error.

Meatwad

he's such a specialized player that i'm struggling to see which rich club he has value to.

Coombs

I'd rather have White than Tomiyasu in my squad, for a number of reasons. And I love Tomi. White is a mentality monster. The fact that he's getting fed up with Zinchenko's idiocy is a good thing in my book. In great teams that win things, big players have to have big personalities, and hold each other to account.

Claudius

Coombs yup. White is great. Arteta also loves him. Trusted him through an injury. I don’t think White gets the appreciation for the number of roles he has to play within a game. He can fill in at centre back or overlap on the wing. He’s covering the most ground vertically of any player, but not just a traditional flying fullback like Tierney. He’s also inverting. Just a special special player. Needs better hair though

QuincyAbeyie

White is fine. Not as good as Tomi (and certainly not the best RB in the league like he's been hailed as at times), but he's available. Certainly wouldn't look to upgrade on him when we have much more glaring issues.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

White is better at pass selection when going forward than Tomiyasu, who I think plays it safe quite often.

HomeSteak

flobaba Who are you comparing White with? With Zinchenko ? or the league in general?
If you are doing it with Zinchenko, then they are about the same this season. White has 1 goal and 1 assist while Zinchenko has 1 goal and 2 assists.
But something has changed with White, who almost never moves forward anymore, I don't know if it's the injury or tactics...but last season White was attacking more, and you could see it in the stats where he had 2 goals and 5 assists(ZInchenko had 1 goal and 2 assists).

In fact, White had the 4th most assists in the league when it comes to defenders, and 2 of the people in front of him are Robertson(8) and Trent(9), who don't really play like full-backs. So you are very wrong, White's offensive contributions are not overrated, he is in fact one of the best in the league at it. Or was, last season.

White has better end product then Tomyiasu as well, that goes without mention, even if Tomyiasu seems very capable in the attacking end, but is just not capable of playing football.

Claudius

HomeSteak 100%. I was looking through fullback data. There isn’t a full back who dominates across all aspects of the game (scoring/creating, passing, defending). Robertson is really strong on the first two, Walker and White are good at the second, etc. There isn’t some unicorn all rounder who kills the stats across the board.

Mirth

White isn't even on my radar as a problem/area to upgrade on. At his worst, he's a solid, dependable fullback and at his best he was one of the best in the league (albeit that was around 12 months ago now)

flobaba

Not here to argue. My eyes be like Shakira's hips.

White is serviceable but sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to the technical level needed for the role - Basic Benny Blanco. Once we find a suitable replacement, he'll be gone.

Reminds me of when I used to tell folks how much better Monreal was than Gibbs. Only a matter of time till you see it for yourselves.

Clrnc

White is actually very good technically. And extremely consistent in his touches and passes. For a CB he is on the high side for that. It's not an issue.

He is just not the most natural RB, but none of our options are. And our manager does seem to only want CBs in those positions. So White is definitely good enough there. He's not even close to being a player I would look to replace but it's also true that this season when he played poorly he lost his spot and only got it back when the rest got injured.

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc White is actually very good technically. And extremely consistent in his touches and passes. For a CB he is on the high side for that. It's not an issue.

He is just not the most natural RB, but none of our options are. And our manager does seem to only want CBs in those positions. So White is definitely good enough there. He's not even close to being a player I would look to replace but it's also true that this season when he played poorly he lost his spot and only got it back when the rest got injured.

In isolation, I suppose you could say that is true, but if you look at Ben White's appearances for the season, the only PL squad he's completely missed is the Burnley game. He then got one minute at home to Wolves and then 10 minutes at Brentford before returning to the first team in the next game, which would appear to indicate an injury issue rather than being dropped.

19 Premier League starts, 2 sub appearances.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ben-white/leistungsdaten/spieler/335721

By way of contrast, Tomiyasu has made 5 Premier League starts, 8 appearances off the bench and one game where he was in the squad but spent the 90 Netflix and chilling.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/takehiro-tomiyasu/leistungsdaten/spieler/331560

Whilst Zinchenko has had 16 starts and 4 sub appearances. I get what Qwiss had said about Timber coming in previously, but I think it's Zinchenko - not Ben White - who should be worried about him.

Obviously, I agree with the rest of your post. 😀 The other thing I'd say is, in terms of his mentality, this is definitely a guy you want in your team. I feel like he's doomed to be a little underrated because of what he isn't, rather than celebrated for who he is. Which is a bit of a shame, but at least we know he won't be bothered! 😆

lorddulaarsenal

White plays to instructions and is very functional. He’s a good fit for what the team needs. That said I’d love to see someone with Trent’s ability to ping it about back there. Someone to really relieve pressure and set off attacks with panache

I like Zinchenko a lot due to how he helps our possession play

flobaba

You're right, RTC. It's mostly about what he doesn't do.

I watch him closely when we try to progress the ball down the right and note the passes he makes, and the ones he chooses not to. And also how play breaks down around him more often than not when we are under pressure. The fortunate thing is these aren't Zinchenko type dumbass unnecessary errors, which leave us scrambling and happen in positions likely to result in an opposition chance at goal. White is a boot it out first, ask questions later sort of defender. Not nearly as composed on the ball as I would prefer.

He's just not my cup of tea, and another area of the pitch I think we can improve on with the right sort of player.

But then again I thought it should be relatively easy to sort out Xhaka, yet here we are.

Qwiss

Whites fine, I think what we need is someone with more pace as the attacking full back on the other side.

goon

Qwiss

End product too. Zinchenko passing is great in buildup but he’s not really able to impact play in the final third.

We desperately need someone who can cross in a manner that will make our forward feel like there’s a chance they might actually get the ball.

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