Jesus: Page 8 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Jesus

Qwiss

I think I'd have ESR over Martinelli. Still think Marti needs to really improve his output to displace Emile in my first XI.

Klaus

Agree with that Qwiss. He can improve on the ball, but Smith-Rowe is easily our best player off it. It seems to me that people don't make a big enough deal out of that even though any given footballer will spend 95% of any given game without being in possession.

We always become less static with him on the pitch, and I reckon we would have been in Champions League right now if we had prioritised off-the-ball-movement and dribbling ability over workrate and more possessive qualities last season. If players like Smith-Rowe and Eddie in particular had featured more regularly in 2022 we wouldn't have lost 4th place to Spurs, I'm sure of it.

Big Willie

Klaus wrote:
Agree with that Qwiss. He can improve on the ball, but Smith-Rowe is easily our best player off it. It seems to me that people don't make a big enough deal out of that even though any given footballer will spend 95% of any given game without being in possession.

We always become less static with him on the pitch, and I reckon we would have been in Champions League right now if we had prioritised off-the-ball-movement and dribbling ability over workrate and more possessive qualities last season. If players like Smith-Rowe and Eddie in particular had featured more regularly in 2022 we wouldn't have lost 4th place to Spurs, I'm sure of it.

Agree with the sentiments about ESR. Think I mentioned it the other day myself that his movement and link up play are bug strengths of his and that his so called slump towards the end of the season was being overstated as he hardly started more than 1 or 2 games in a row post Christmas.

But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Klaus

Big Willie wrote:
But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Yeah I think that's why Freddie was so fond of the lad, and why Smith-Rowe himself was so fond of Özil. All players with a lot of quality on the ball, but they thrived on superior movement. Ødegaard would have had a better assist return on all those chances he created last season too if he'd had teammates that could move off their mark quicker.

Rohit

Big Willie wrote:
But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Just loved this goal.

jones

We definitely need to make better use of ESR but he needs to massively raise his bottom level. That performance at Newcastle was genuinely one of the worst of any Arsenal player ever, played like a U12 kid.

Big Willie

Klaus wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Yeah I think that's why Freddie was so fond of the lad, and why Smith-Rowe himself was so fond of Özil. All players with a lot of quality on the ball, but they thrived on superior movement. Ødegaard would have had a better assist return on all those chances he created last season too if he'd had teammates that could move off their mark quicker.

For real. Odegaard himself is very good at pass and move, but his movement is more support and behind and to the sides of where the ball is rather than ahead of the ball.

We do have some players like Xhaka, Lacazette, Martinelli who played a lot of minutes tend come and show for the ball to receive it to feet and then stay around the same area waiting for it to come back. Though I'm not entirely convinced it's totally a player exclusive issue to be honest. Movement, at least at the team level can be coached and drilled, which is why you see inferior teams able to do so despite their limitations, and gulf in ability comoared to the top teams.

To be fair we do coach and drill our movements. It's just that the movement and areas we prioritise have been more about overloading certain areas and minimising risk assocuated wuth turnovers, rather than taking the riskier approach of runners advancing ahead of the ball and pulling defenders away which allows others to capitalise on that vacated space.

Rohit wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Just loved this goal.

Brilliant goal all round tbh. But yeah, he has tha ability to be in the right place at the right time. Has a knack of reading where the ball will end up, whether it requires running ahead of it into the box, or slowing himself down to run onto it from deep.

Doc

ESR Reminds me of Wilshere a bit after his injury. Tactical game was very underdeveloped... being a bit predictable, always going for one twos and not seeing the bigger picture. He is still young though and that can come with game time, but he will need really to work on it.. Give him some time..

Shady

jones wrote:
We definitely need to make better use of ESR but he needs to massively raise his bottom level. That performance at Newcastle was genuinely one of the worst of any Arsenal player ever, played like a U12 kid.

He can be very good off the ball, but in games like that needs to get on the ball more. One-twos are great when you want to carve open a parked bus, but when you're under the cosh, you need to hold onto the ball a bit and win fouls to relieve pressure. Would love to see ESR develop that aspect of his game.

Gazza M

Rohit wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
But his ability to drift in ghost behind defenders is very reminiscent of Freddie/Pires of old and he is one of the few players that understand the give and go/third man running in the team alongside Saka.

Just loved this goal.

very invincibles, that. reminiscent of the deep breaks from vieira ending in a tidy finish from bobby

goon

Shady wrote:
jones wrote:
We definitely need to make better use of ESR but he needs to massively raise his bottom level. That performance at Newcastle was genuinely one of the worst of any Arsenal player ever, played like a U12 kid.

He can be very good off the ball, but in games like that needs to get on the ball more. One-twos are great when you want to carve open a parked bus, but when you're under the cosh, you need to hold onto the ball a bit and win fouls to relieve pressure. Would love to see ESR develop that aspect of his game.

He's actually very good at carrying the ball too, even in tight spaces. He just doesn't do it unless he's confident/on form at the moment. I think it was against Burnley in the 0-0 where every time he got the ball he just played it safe, the one time he did try to carry it he caused havoc.

Qwiss

Klaus wrote:
Agree with that Qwiss. He can improve on the ball, but Smith-Rowe is easily our best player off it. It seems to me that people don't make a big enough deal out of that even though any given footballer will spend 95% of any given game without being in possession.

We always become less static with him on the pitch, and I reckon we would have been in Champions League right now if we had prioritised off-the-ball-movement and dribbling ability over workrate and more possessive qualities last season. If players like Smith-Rowe and Eddie in particular had featured more regularly in 2022 we wouldn't have lost 4th place to Spurs, I'm sure of it.

Yeah definitely and that off the ball movement will be worth more with a CF like Jesus in the team who can find players making those runs.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Agree with that Qwiss. He can improve on the ball, but Smith-Rowe is easily our best player off it. It seems to me that people don't make a big enough deal out of that even though any given footballer will spend 95% of any given game without being in possession.

We always become less static with him on the pitch, and I reckon we would have been in Champions League right now if we had prioritised off-the-ball-movement and dribbling ability over workrate and more possessive qualities last season. If players like Smith-Rowe and Eddie in particular had featured more regularly in 2022 we wouldn't have lost 4th place to Spurs, I'm sure of it.

I have read much the same in a couple of different articles as being one of the main criticisims of Saka (and our forward line in general), in that he/they would seldom make runs in behind ahead of the ball to beat his/their man, and would generally wait until he was in possession before looking to do so.

I actually think the likes of Zinchenko and Vieira can do so along with ESR and Jesus, and if we can do so as a team to both make those runs and look to make the pass into the space, then our goals will increase even before we consider our improved pressing from the front.

Qwiss

Anzac wrote:
I have read much the same in a couple of different articles as being one of the main criticisims of Saka (and our forward line in general), in that he/they would seldom make runs in behind ahead of the ball to beat his/their man, and would generally wait until he was in possession before looking to do so.

I felt Saka added a lot of that to his game last season.

Coombs

ESR should be able to stake a claim for a regular starting role - if he can stay fit. I don't think there are any barriers beyond his physical capability unless someone else really explodes.

Bosscielny

Jesus has looked phenomenal every time he’s been out there. Looks like another great signing by Edu, Arteta and the team.

Excited to see how he does once he’s fully acclimated with the group. Think we’re going to see some great football played with him and the guys we have behind him.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
Anzac wrote:
I have read much the same in a couple of different articles as being one of the main criticisims of Saka (and our forward line in general), in that he/they would seldom make runs in behind ahead of the ball to beat his/their man, and would generally wait until he was in possession before looking to do so.

I felt Saka added a lot of that to his game last season.

Was also reading he has been doing so in pre-season, however the issue has been/is that he does not committ 100% to making the run, and then the pass does not get played.

I remember a game when Lacazette was new to the club, and he was constantly making runs into space off the last man both direct and curved, out wide or inside or into the channels, and he was even waving to the player on the ball and guesturing where he wanted it and where he was going to go. He was getting free just about everytime and yet he never had the ball played into space for him either before or after he made the move. And the main culprit = Xhaka. By the end of the game he had stopped running and had started staying more central and his movement was towards the ball.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Anzac wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I felt Saka added a lot of that to his game last season.

Was also reading he has been doing so in pre-season, however the issue has been/is that he does not committ 100% to making the run, and then the pass does not get played.

I remember a game when Lacazette was new to the club, and he was constantly making runs into space off the last man both direct and curved, out wide or inside or into the channels, and he was even waving to the player on the ball and guesturing where he wanted it and where he was going to go. He was getting free just about everytime and yet he never had the ball played into space for him either before or after he made the move. And the main culprit = Xhaka. By the end of the game he had stopped running and had started staying more central and his movement was towards the ball.

Yes, I remember the Sky Sports analysis of his debut vs Leicester. They showed the number of times he made a run but Xhaka would ignore it and play it sideways or backwards.

banduan

Saka makes plenty of runs behind. Not sure where the idea that he doesn't comes from. Unless it's referring to a very specific kind of run behind, diagonally behind the CB, which perhaps he needs to do more of. It all depends on where the overloads are though and since so much of our play is through the right it gets congested and less of those runs are possible.

goon

He doesn't do it consistently enough - but these are generally the bad habits of young players.

I think more importantly he needs to work on is committing to the box when the ball is coming in from the other side. It's the best/easiest way to score goals. Sterling is a great example of that, always in the box for a tap in. Martinelli needs to improve there too, ESR is the only one at the moment who does it fairly well.

All of these things will come with experience and a bit of guidance though.

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