Ode confirmed: Page 62 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ode confirmed

Claudius

QuincyAbeyie everything you've put above falls under the umbrella of protecting a young player. Quincy please go and find me data on how much other top young forwards have played for their teams at the same age. I have looked at it extensively. You're just filibustering with no data or overview of how coaches typically manage young players in physical team sports.

Tam

Claudius Well on the same team Lewis Skelly has played twice as many minutes this season, and Lamine Yamal has played three times as many minutes this season. Cubarsi, more than twice as many this year at the same age, and last year he also got way more than Nwaneri will reach this year. Hato last year at same ago, three times as many. Zaire-Emery last year, more than twice as many. Not all forwards, but position has little to do with it.

QuincyAbeyie

QuincyAbeyie But most of all, my post didn't even say that Nwaneri should play more. It said that Arteta thinking Nwaneri is capable of playing more is the only thing that could've partly justified letting ESR and Vieira go without signing anyone.

invisibleman18

RocktheCasbah but I can't believe ESR would not have been able to make a positive contribution to this Arsenal team.

At the very least it's difficult to argue we're better off by replacing him with Sterling.

Mirth

Feels like the ESR transfer was financially driven - £35m in hand forced the issue.

Tam

Mirth And player driven. It would have done ESR no good to hang about here as a back up for another year. All sides needed it - the issue wasn't him going it was in not replacing him.

Burnwinter

Mirth It was the right call. He would've been better than Sterling, but it would've hurt more than it would've been worth to have him here watching him play as little as Sterling has for yet another season.

Qwiss

Claudius How many senior minutes do you think Messi had at the same age?

How many does Lamine Yamal have?

Claudius

Qwiss he has a ton. But again. We are talking about outliers. Just go look at data for players this age at top teams at top clubs. They’re usually far less exposed.
Barca btw played a few of their kids hard at an early age and lost them for a long time - like Pedri, Gavi etc. general feeling was they were overplayed.

But another trend is fans will typically think coaches are underplaying hot new talent. Go look at comments re Peps use of Rico, Foden etc., on their forums.

Big Willie

JazzG I've seen a few mention about White not being around and I agree that hasn't helped but that hasn't stopped Saka from being awesome why has it nerfed Odegaard?

Whit has been injured since November. Saka has been injured since December. And a goal on his return and vs Madrid aside, he hasn't looked awesome. None of our attacking players have for some time. They've done a job at times but no one is really shining. All but 1 or 2 of Saka's G/A tally were before his injury when White was available.

Edit: It doesn't wxplain everything obviously, but it's not like it isn't a factor either. Like @Burnwinter said, we need to get some of those automatisns abd partnerships funtioning again with or without White. It's just that the White, Ode, Saka triangle was our more effective partnership for some time and it's been disrupted throughout this whole season with Ode out for 2 months, then White out for 4 months and then Saka out for 4 months.

Qwiss

Claudius We are talking about outliers.

Nwaneri isn't your average player.

As for Pedri he's currently the best midfielder in the world. Maybe his experience at a young age has helped him reach that level? Foden on the other hand was under played by Pep, now he's gone a bit mid. I'd rather have Pedri.

Claudius

Qwiss hard for me to say what the individual average footballer is in this context. I don't know enough about any of these players' physical and mental maturity or injury risk. I can only speak about overall averages/trends, but not to what is the exact right treatment for any individual player. So you could be right, that he should be playing tons of minutes. I just don't know.

Panda

It's got to the point with Odegaard where I dread the ball going to him and can only hope he will do something positive in an attacking sense rather than expecting it.

Even though I only have hope now I somehow still find myself disappointed when he doesn't manage to do anything and to save myself from the constant feeling of disappointment I can only give up on him 💔

At least with Havertz last season he still had a bit of fight in him and I could keep the faith but Odegaard just looks completely bereft and incapable. I think it's more than a confidence thing and he really should be given some time out but unfortunately we have 0 options (Nwaneri is great but still green and more of a forward) which brings us back to our transfer windows this season which in hindsight were horrific.

It wouldn't surprise me if they again fail to bring in a creative attacking midfielder in the summer which is unforgivable. The team clearly needs creative help it's mind boggling.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Panda we'll chase a forward all summer and leave the (attacking) midfield short. This is Arsenal.

The latter area is as much of a mess as the former.

Qwiss

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert honestly if we really think we are as badly off at CM as we are at CF then we need changes with the guys buying the players. We have Ode, Rice, Merino, Nwaneri, Havertz all available for the 2 CM positions. We've spent a fortune there and we need to just get on with it and get the right pieces to make it work. With Partey and Jorginho out the DM position needs the investment along with CF and LW.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Qwiss yeah, I worry about Zubimendi being the only one in the squad who can do the Jorgi/Partey playmaking from deep if those guys both depart. Rice can play some aspects of 6 well but he's not always ideal for our game from there. If they both leave we need Zubi plus a prospect for that position unless that's what MLS is earmarked for (no evidence to suggest this yet).

I don't rate Havertz much as a midfielder and Arteta has barely given Ethan a sniff in midfield.

Odegaard is terrible this season but the fact we have no one else in the squad who can ease the burden is a fuck-up of gargantuan proportions.

Are we banking on Rice to be the long term left 8? Just don't know if he's ideal from there against all types of opposition. We lack creativity and guile especially with MO so out of form.

lorddulaarsenal

Odegaard helps us pen teams back.

What we need is competition for his place in the team or an alternative type of attacking midfielder there to give us options and depth.

Links to Jacob Ramsey appearing in the media. He’d be refreshing. An athletic, direct and a spikey character. Our attack sometimes feels too polite and timid. Need a bit of fire in the belly

MistaT

If we persist with Odegaard what we need is a CF that actually makes runs forward, and for Saka to offer more off ball running. Would also help Odegaard if our LW came narrower, and our FB overlapped/stayed wide as he no longer releases Martinelli for much.

But a lot of what I mentioned is not really in Arteta's vision of the team. I've said it elsewhere, but I actually think we'll continue to see quite a few players at only 70-80% of their potential when playing in/for Arteta's team. For some players it won't impact them much due to their quality (Saka, Gabriel) or because the ask is better suited for them (MLS, Rice, etc.), but others will be challenged (Odegaard, Martinelli, ESR, etc.)

lorddulaarsenal

I actually think it’s not runners Odegaard needs its players who can combine with him in small spaces. He loved having Jesus’s hustle ahead of him a year or so back

Claudius

lorddulaarsenal was watching this game today and thinking he would love a Bernardo Silva type near him. That would help us move the ball faster in small spaces.

Gazza M

there is no triangles of technical excellence at arsenal. the team has been conciously built that way. when you look barca and PSG, you do notice that they have groupings of players that are technically levels above us and it's not by accident. we're the pressing duel monsters with a sprinkling of just enough technical quality up front to get by. that's not to say we can't beat these teams, as we have our own way of doing things which we are capable of executing at a high level.

Claudius

Gazza M when we first got going, we had this with Jesus, Odegaard, Saka. Go back and look at our play before the I’ll/fated World Cup

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Gazza M correct, and I'm highly disappointed about it if I'm honest.

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