Ode confirmed: Page 61 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Ode confirmed

tazmania

He's shit and he goes missing in big moments. Not the first time.
I still wouldn't consider replacing him after one bad year

flobaba

Even if say Wirtz was to hit you up on the phone like "yo naaaazty naz, bruv, I'm wanting to join Arsenal this summer." Would you consider it then sir?

Coombs

Yikes.

Burnwinter

RocktheCasbah I have to say, even I came away from tonight thinking "we need something else". I'm not saying bin him, but we are so dependent on him that if he doesn't show up it kills us.

Watching Ødegaard do his "shuttling round the horseshoe purposefully" manoeuvre has corroded my trust in him in the past few months. In matches like the one just gone, we need Ødegaard to release the ball faster and make himself less of a bottleneck, less of a predictable phase of of our build-up that gives the opposition too much time to regroup.

I do believe his underperformance has got a lot to do with our lacking forwards as I've mentioned, so I would expect him to improve next season almost by default.

Ødegaard's sharp attempts at putting team-mates through round the penalty area are failing way too regularly. That's a matter for Arteta as well as it's a communication problem.

It looks to me like we need to get back to our "automatisms" and make sure the likes of Timber or Martinelli know when to make those runs and receive those balls more than half the time.

Big Willie

Burnwinter It looks to me like we need to get back to our "automatisms" and make sure the likes of Timber or Martinelli know when to make those runs and receive those balls more than half the time.

That's where we've missed White, as good as Timber has been on the whole.

Burnwinter

Big Willie The White / Saka / Øde trio developed a great intuition.

On the other hand I guess we're all bloody glad we didn't just watch ninety minutes of an under-played Ben White facing Kvaratskhelia for one on ones.

Gurgen

I think it’s simply a lack of confidence and physical troubles. The latter enlarges the former. The real question for me is why our club allows our captain to go on international duty already injured and fuck himself even more, perhaps permanently. Looking at what happened to Diaby I am very worried he might never be back to his best again.

JazzG

Gurgen That is a valid point and maybe that injury has perma-crocked him, if that is the case then we need to be seriously thinking about how we move forward.

Lukazan I've been off on Odegaard for a while now, this isn't something which has just happened overnight for me. This isn't just someone who is out of form, this is someone who literally looks lost on the pitch right now. His defensive work rate is great and I've got nothing but respect for the guy but his performances this season have been utterly shocking. this doesn't feel like just a blip. I'm inclined to go with Gurgen's view that the injury has really fucked things up for him. Something is seriously off with him. He is slow on the ball and off it, every time the ball comes near him our game slows and the other team recover. He has been a ghost for the entire season, with all the injuries we've had this was the time we needed him to step up and he has simply gone missing.

I was always one of his biggest fans but this isn't on. A serious discussion needs to be had though, we can't keep going on like this and just hope things get better. I've seen a few mention about White not being around and I agree that hasn't helped but that hasn't stopped Saka from being awesome why has it nerfed Odegaard?

I hope he proves me wrong and turns it around but it doesn't look that way.

Tam

There was a moment after Nwaneri came on where he took up possession near the right side and you could see he was about to launch into the horseshoe swing to the left, but he checked back on himself and played it out to (I think) Timber on the wing with a bit more space. A quick turn and smallest of variations in what we do but noticeable because the pattern is so well worn with Odegaard. There’s so very little variation to his game just now.

Odegaard apart I was extremely disappointed in our attacking patterns last night. Made the game so extremely simple for PSG once they had their goal.

Rohit

Odegaard has shown us that he can play at a much higher level. Whatever has happened to him this season, it's not as if he has been found out by opposition managers. His struggles are evident but it's too early to let him go. He needs help from Arteta and his brand of football. They need an evolution. If Arteta gets praise for the individuals that are growing under him, we also need to look at him for those that are seemingly going backwards. Jurgen Klopp looked very genuine when he suggested that everyone should remember the name Martinelli. Another player that seems to have stalled. A top center forward may or may not benefit both, but a bit more freedom surely will.

IBL

It's like he's retreated into his shell, doesn't believe in his own abilities anymore

Claudius

IBL nobody needs a summer more than this man. I still believe in him
What's a bit surprising how quickly people have forgotten how strong he was previous two seasons, picking up POTY awards and killing multiple attacking metrics across Europe. he looks gaunt and as you saying lacking in confidence.

Mirth

Claudius I suppose the surprise comes from how dramatically he's fallen off. As you say, Odegaard's been our player of the season for the past two years while also getting PFA plaudits and generally being our main man after Saka. With that reputation, you'd accept a drop of in form but still expect him to be decent most weeks.

At the moment he's been poor week in, week out which is hard to accept because of what he's doing right now but also the risk that he's not going to recover and give us another position to strengthen. Additionally, aside from the injury, there's no obvious reason why he'd burn out - he even had the summer off!

Big Willie

JazzG I've seen a few mention about White not being around and I agree that hasn't helped but that hasn't stopped Saka from being awesome why has it nerfed Odegaard?

Whit has been injured since November. Saka has been injured since December. And a goal on his return and vs Madrid aside, he hasn't looked awesome. None of our attacking players have for some time. They've done a job at times but no one is really shining. All but 1 or 2 of Saka's G/A tally were before his injury when White was available.

Edit: It doesn't wxplain everything obviously, but it's not like it isn't a factor either. Like @Burnwinter said, we need to get some of those automatisns abd partnerships funtioning again with or without White. It's just that the White, Ode, Saka triangle was our more effective partnership for some time and it's been disrupted throughout this whole season with Ode out for 2 months, then White out for 4 months and then Saka out for 4 months.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah this is the issue. We went into the season selling Smith-Rowe and Vieira to clear the way for Nwaneri yet Arteta still seems unwilling to use Nwaneri sometimes when we need to get Odegaard out of the game. I don't think Martins been helped by this at all. He came back from injury and was thrown straight in, now slow build up that people get where we have depth. He hasn't looked the same since then and I don't think its a coincidence.

Claudius

Qwiss think the issue is more about not replacing ESR/Vieira than not using Nwaneri. Nwaneri has already played a lot of ball for someone his age. Arteta tends to be careful with super young players. Remember how he sat Saka in the FA cup final.

Qwiss

Claudius think the issue is more about not replacing ESR/Vieira than not using Nwaneri.

Nwaneri was the replacement. And extra few minutes off the bench isn't going to be too much for Nwaneri.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius think the issue is more about not replacing ESR/Vieira than not using Nwaneri.

Those are not separate issues. If Arteta was not planning to use Nwaneri more than this, a replacement was needed.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie agree with this. Seems incredibly self defeating to leave yourself with only a 17 year old kid you obviously rate but, maybe correctly maybe not, don't completely trust yet to cover your club captain and playmaker.

To paraphrase your man in Goodfellas, he's gone and there's nothing we can do about it, but I can't believe ESR would not have been able to make a positive contribution to this Arsenal team.

Claudius

QuincyAbeyie it’s literally Arteta should’ve had a full adult who can play more minutes in attacking midfield. Nwaneri has played a shit ton of minutes already. How many senior minutes do you think Messi had at the same age? 250 total. Nwaneri has far surpassed that. I’m not sure what benchmark people are using for appropriate minutes for a 17 year old but this guy is way over typical benchmarks. Go look at our top players like Salah, Foden etc and tell me how many of them played more minutes at a top team at the same age.

invisibleman18

RocktheCasbah but I can't believe ESR would not have been able to make a positive contribution to this Arsenal team.

At the very least it's difficult to argue we're better off by replacing him with Sterling.

Gunner89

RocktheCasbah

ESR isn't even making Fulham's first eleven right now, with inconsistent form

Selling him was absolutely the right decision

Qwiss

Claudius How many senior minutes do you think Messi had at the same age?

How many does Lamine Yamal have?

QuincyAbeyie

Personally finding it funny how when Nwaneri first didn't get minutes it was "he's too young", then he started getting a lot of minutes it "was very wise to slowly build him up earlier so that he's now capable of handling a lot of minutes" and now he's pretty much stopped playing that's wise as well because "he's already played a lot earlier in the season". I get it. If he plays, you'll defend it and if he's benched you'll defend it. Who cares how many minutes a different player at another club played fifteen years ago when he was the same age? Will you find players at MLS's age who played less minutes so MLS should stop playing?

But most of all, my post didn't even say that Nwaneri should play more. It said that Arteta thinking Nwaneri is capable of playing more is the only thing that could've partly justified letting ESR and Vieira go without signing anyone.

Claudius

QuincyAbeyie everything you've put above falls under the umbrella of protecting a young player. Quincy please go and find me data on how much other top young forwards have played for their teams at the same age. I have looked at it extensively. You're just filibustering with no data or overview of how coaches typically manage young players in physical team sports.

QuincyAbeyie

QuincyAbeyie But most of all, my post didn't even say that Nwaneri should play more. It said that Arteta thinking Nwaneri is capable of playing more is the only thing that could've partly justified letting ESR and Vieira go without signing anyone.

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