flobaba It's not about "criticizing" him per se, of course he's a top player. But he's scored 4 goals in the last 12 months, in 29 PL appearances and 7 CL appearances (dating back to Dec 2nd, 2023). That's 1 goal in every 9 games.

If you're gonna win the PL/CL, sometimes you need to play a total team game and blow opponents away, but other times you need your elite attacking players to step up and win matches for you. Saka does that all the time, as we know. But Havertz for all his great qualities is a more functional player. Martinelli and Trossard aren't at that level. Ødegaard has great technique and was scoring more to begin the PL last season (4 goals in his first 14). We'll need him to bring us home in a few games this season.

      CPM It's not about "criticizing" him per se, of course he's a top player. But he's scored 4 goals in the last 12 months, in 29 PL appearances and 7 CL appearances (dating back to Dec 2nd, 2023). That's 1 goal in every 9 games.

      Are you suggesting we might need a guy like this in midfield to complement Odegaard and Rice?

        Claudius We need one more player of this Saliba, Saka, Odegaard level. In attack. And then it's curtains.

        Yes. But in attack on the left. Then it's curtains. 🙂

          IMO if we want a second Ode we need to go for Jude Bellingham and get him to play the way he did at Dortmund.

          Bonkers how important he is to the team. Also bonkers to focus on the few things he can do better, and not how ridiculously better everything flows when he is on the pitch.

          Definitely. I think he's actually somewhat underrated on here which is another thing to add to the bonkers list.

          Best player in the league.

          6 days later

          Where would we rank him against Fabregas in the scheme of things? (leaving aside personal feelings about Fab, and there are plenty of bad ones)

            USArsenal they’re both superb.
            I think it’s hard to judge Fabregas accurately because Wenger never gave him a platform. If we had the Kroenkes owning the club and investing as they are now, I suspect Fabregas would’ve reached another level

                Claudius hard disagree. Wenger built the team around him. The side wasn't as strong as it could have been but Wenger gave him the platform to play the best football of his career. When he went to a team with a better squad at Barca he was just a rotation player.

                    Qwiss meanwhile Odegaard (and Saka) are rigidly stuck in a system that gives them minimal freedom compared to what Fabregas had. Although back in the 00s it was normal for your best player to have a free role to influence the game how they saw fit until tiki-taka and then ControlBall ruined the fun

                    Fabregas could never last a full season wherever he played, he dropped off post Jan every time. I’d say him and Odegaard are on par for what they achieved so far

                        I think Fabregas had a higher ceiling, but also a lower floor than Odegaard.

                        Their stats across all seasons in the Premier League are comparable with Fabregas scoring/assisting in .48 games and Odegaard at .44 games. That's a marginal difference, but where Fabregas takes the output consideration is in his 09/10 season with 30 goal contributions in 27 games. Odegaard has peaked at 22 in 37, a noticeably less efficient volume.

                        That said, outside of a few cowardly performances at Liverpool, I think on his worst day Odegaard is noticeably better than Fabregas at his lows. Odegaard has a far bigger impact on our defensive pressing and shape.

                        I'm not sure how to gauge our current team in which Odegaard really only has Saka (going forward) vs Fabregas playing in teams with Nasri, RVP, Arshavin, and Walcott....though rarely all together. It seems that Fabregas had more offensive players to enhance his output, where as Odegaard has a far better backline supporting him.

                          Mirth .I’d say him and Odegaard are on par for what they achieved so far

                          In what? lol. I fucking hate Fabgreas but let's be real, Odegaard will never get close to Fabregas. When it comes to assists stats, he won't get close, no need to talk about it, period. In goals? maybe....but it will be hard, we will see. In winning shit? It's already over for Odegaard, he has 0 chance.

                              Fabregas became a G/A monster in his last couple of years with us but in that period I hated that he was played as a S/S. He didn't have the agility or nimbleness for it and we lost all his structure, dictating ability and middle of the park genius when he moved further up.

                              HomeSteak eh, in terms of actually watching them play. With all this talk of goals + assists, you'd think Fabregas benched Xavi and Iniesta instead of the other way around.

                              Like BBKG, some of Fabregas' best performances were during that CL run where he wasn't scoring or assisting but dominating midfield. As for goalscoring, Odegaard already surpassed Fabregas' 07/08 tally a couple of seasons back. After that Fabregas was practically a second striker for which the whole team suffered.

                                  Mirth come on man, who would bench prime Xavi and Iniesta? Odegaard wouldn't either.
                                  Odegaard has it all to prove, well the snake did it all