Premier League 21/22: Page 48 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Premier League 21/22

QuincyAbeyie

I have a feeling people wouldn't shrug it off in the same way if it was us. They're a messy organization and more than a manager he's a guy that's good at running an organization.

Burnwinter

All the managers they've brought in since Ferguson, barring Solskjaer of course, have had a pedigree of sorts. So while I agree with you I don't think Rangnick's more holistic and rational approach to club development will automatically fix their issues. It really depends on his brief, his tenure, and how he's empowered.

jones

Sicario wrote:
@[deleted], can you please shed some light on this new interim Man Utd manager?

As Arsenal fans, should we be worried?

Clrnc said it already basically, his track record as a manager is decentish, hasn't been too great in recent years which is probably health related with him but he's gifted some thoroughly average players some really good careers. However he's the best bar none at building up a club, creating an organisation, scouting talented players and more important backroom staff. Can't think of anyone else who does what he did while he did it at two or three different clubs depending on how you're counting (Hoffenheim, Salzburg/Leipzig plus their farm teams). He's the mastermind behind the Red Bull organisation which produces and unearths more talent than any other club or youth academy in Europe and has churned out loads of talented coaches, about half the Bundesliga coaches came from there plus guys like Hasenhüttl at Southampton, Schmidt at PSV or Germany's NT coach Hansi Flick.

If he's given free reign to do what he needs he could transform United into a European powerhouse. Only thing that gives me hope is he hasn't done it in a non-German speaking country so far and he's over 60 and suffered from occupational burn-out before, but really everything he's done before plus United's bottomless bag of cash means trouble most likely.

Ray

I would say he's mainly worked on smaller clubs looking to build up by unearthing gems, whereas Man Utd are more about spending exuberantly on star players. So he may not be ideal for a club like Utd who are already established.

Sicario

jones wrote:
Sicario wrote:
@[deleted], can you please shed some light on this new interim Man Utd manager?

As Arsenal fans, should we be worried?

Clrnc said it already basically, his track record as a manager is decentish, hasn't been too great in recent years which is probably health related with him but he's gifted some thoroughly average players some really good careers. However he's the best bar none at building up a club, creating an organisation, scouting talented players and more important backroom staff. Can't think of anyone else who does what he did while he did it at two or three different clubs depending on how you're counting (Hoffenheim, Salzburg/Leipzig plus their farm teams). He's the mastermind behind the Red Bull organisation which produces and unearths more talent than any other club or youth academy in Europe and has churned out loads of talented coaches, about half the Bundesliga coaches came from there plus guys like Hasenhüttl at Southampton, Schmidt at PSV or Germany's NT coach Hansi Flick.

If he's given free reign to do what he needs he could transform United into a European powerhouse. Only thing that gives me hope is he hasn't done it in a non-German speaking country so far and he's over 60 and suffered from occupational burn-out before, but really everything he's done before plus United's bottomless bag of cash means trouble most likely.

Thanks, bit worried now. It is so typical his first match is against us.

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I have a feeling people wouldn't shrug it off in the same way if it was us. They're a messy organization and more than a manager he's a guy that's good at running an organization.

I think unfortunately its a very smart move by United. I'd imagine they have the next manager sorted too and that Ragnick knows who it is. He'll have their transfer targets all set for whoever is coming in too. With Uniteds resources and reputation its very worrying. Its a massively underperforming squad with plenty of young talent too, wouldn't take much to make them competitive.

goon

jones wrote:
Sicario wrote:
@[deleted], can you please shed some light on this new interim Man Utd manager?

As Arsenal fans, should we be worried?

Clrnc said it already basically, his track record as a manager is decentish, hasn't been too great in recent years which is probably health related with him but he's gifted some thoroughly average players some really good careers. However he's the best bar none at building up a club, creating an organisation, scouting talented players and more important backroom staff. Can't think of anyone else who does what he did while he did it at two or three different clubs depending on how you're counting (Hoffenheim, Salzburg/Leipzig plus their farm teams). He's the mastermind behind the Red Bull organisation which produces and unearths more talent than any other club or youth academy in Europe and has churned out loads of talented coaches, about half the Bundesliga coaches came from there plus guys like Hasenhüttl at Southampton, Schmidt at PSV or Germany's NT coach Hansi Flick.

If he's given free reign to do what he needs he could transform United into a European powerhouse. Only thing that gives me hope is he hasn't done it in a non-German speaking country so far and he's over 60 and suffered from occupational burn-out before, but really everything he's done before plus United's bottomless bag of cash means trouble most likely.

Do you think the size of the club will make a difference? Feels like a lot of the 'club building' qualities are not really transferable here, and United don't feel like a 'project' type club.

Mind you, when you're replacing Ed Woodward as the clubs strategic mastermind...

Burnwinter

I dunno, I don't get why we're worried about United. Of course they've got plenty of talent in the squad and they might start doing better temporarily or being less horribly run in the medium term, but it's a bit like being worried about Conte taking over at Spurs. We should just focus on our own challenges.

Qwiss

I'm not overly worried about Conte because medium term I think Spurs are fucked anyway. United aren't though and we need avenues for us to get back to winning things. If United, Chelsea, City and now potentially Newcastle all end up being well run we'll never break in.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
I'm not overly worried about Conte because medium term I think Spurs are fucked anyway. United aren't though and we need avenues for us to get back to winning things. If United, Chelsea, City and now potentially Newcastle all end up being well run we'll never break in.

Agreed - and this is why IMO we do not have the luxury of time to take 3 seasons to build towards a top4 challenge, by which time not only top4/UCL but also top5/UEL could be 'locked out' (after we failed to do so under AW whilst we had the margins in our favour).

At that point you not only need both the determination and quality to challenge, but you also need something exceptional so as to make it happen, as the circumstances that saw LCFC win the title are unlikely to be repeated. As such I do not believe we currently have any of those 3 ingredients, and think our more likely strategy would be to look regain UCL via the 'back door' winning 'promotion' from the other 2 UEFA comps.

Anzac

Clrnc wrote:
He isn't as good as a manager so not that worried but if they allows him free reign to transform the club before appointing a new manager under his watch then it's super bad news.

IMO the best thing about this is he didn't go to NUFC = they've missed a massive opportunity.

Anzac

Bryant wrote:
they seem fixated on getting Pochettino as their manager next year.

Not sure why they seem so fixated on him tbh, but that said I think he'd be a good fit to follow on from Rangnick.
Good news for us being he's not Bielsa.

Burnwinter

Qwiss! wrote:
I'm not overly worried about Conte because medium term I think Spurs are fucked anyway. United aren't though and we need avenues for us to get back to winning things. If United, Chelsea, City and now potentially Newcastle all end up being well run we'll never break in.

Well you've just described the terrain. Right now, there are three clubs that are streets ahead of us. Two more that are cashed up and looking to get their act together. A number of others that are highly credible. World class talent in the field against us. Top coaches and administrators increasingly choosing to make their careers in England. That's the league, and will be the league.

We have the resources to compete. KSE is worth £10bn. We have FFP to keep it kosher within a ±100–200m sort of margin. Commercial and TV rights revenues will continue to surge across the board, and it looks like a long stranglehold on Europe for the Premier League too.

We need this squad to grow in maturity. The next handful of matches, in the case of Newcastle and United coming against shiny new managers on the bounce, are a better focus than this landscape—the extremely competitive nature of which is clear whether or not Rangnick transforms United. It's tough for us but it's tough for all the other clubs.

goon

I think we need to try and get 4th this season somehow and then we can consolidate with 1 or 2 top class signings. That would put us in a position of strength to combat those sides.

jones

goon wrote:
I think we need to try and get 4th this season somehow and then we can consolidate with 1 or 2 top class signings. That would put us in a position of strength to combat those sides.

Do you think it realistic we got 4th this season? Between the talent level of our squad (definitely top four material) and the ineptitude of our coach, inability to put attacking moves together, cowardice on and off the ball etc (definitely relegation material) it's difficult to say, even without a managerial change and a lot of luck we could fluke 4th, more likely we finish between 6th and 10th though. Get a good manager in early enough and I'd bump our chances to 90%, don't rate our competition one bit the whole league bar City and Chelsea is trash.

goon

Thanks to Ole, it's definitely a possibility. Our ceiling with Arteta might not great so far but our level is good enough to win our bread and butter games. Given the young nature of our squad and the fact that we're only playing once a week should really be an advantage too.

Qwiss

jones wrote:
don't rate our competition one bit the whole league bar City and Chelsea is trash.

Liverpool are as good as those 2 as well.

And the leagues extremely strong. Even a rubbish (by PL standards) Man Utd managed by Ole were able to top their CL group.

Clrnc

Liverpool might be even better than City this season. Thiago has adapted to their system and now in full flow.

jones

Qwiss! wrote:
jones wrote:
don't rate our competition one bit the whole league bar City and Chelsea is trash.

Liverpool are as good as those 2 as well.

And the leagues extremely strong. Even a rubbish (by PL standards) Man Utd managed by Ole were able to top their CL group.

Liverpool look good now but they haven't done it before we gave them a much needed lift by bending over for them. They're better than last season but nowhere near the season before. Still cycling on it again though so they probably will improve as the season goes.

The CL is just as poor as the PL. United's group are overachievers and they're in shit form, same as Liverpool's group. Madrid losing at home vs a club of bouncers etc it's a big mess really, only Bayern City and Ajax look impressive in Europe. Chelsea are an outlier, difficult to say whether they'll keep this form up or not but for now I'd rate them ahead of the stragglers.

goon

Nah, Liverpool have been great all season, easily the best side. They took a bit of a dip when they had a couple of injuries in midfield but they've been comfortably better than Chelsea for my money.

Mane has gone to shit though so Salah is having to carry them a little.

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