Arsenal join the Cowards League: Page 10 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal join the Cowards League

Klaus

We're an embarrassment, and I hope we get punished for this so badly that the club's value is completely ruined.

Kick out Kroenke from England, sieze his assets, put the club into fan equity, and let's restart in a lower division. I would be so down for it. The idea is genuinely more thrilling to me than a super league.

Claudius

jones wrote:
You guys are talking about financial implications like those were happening just one way. The clubs breaking away are in deep shit themselves if this doesn't go as they hilariously seem to plan plus UEFA and FIFA hold a lot of sway over national FAs including the English one. Whatever happens it'll be a massive clusterfuck

It’s about leverage. These clubs have greater leverage since they are make the football economy turn. They know that the Premier League’s threat to throw them out is actually hollow because the entire football pyramid would go into bankruptcy across England, Spain and Italy.

These clubs also have to stay the path or risk becoming the boy who cried Wolf. You don’t make threats you can’t back up. It will destroy you in future stand offs. You’ll have no credibility. It’s interesting to hear rumours of some clubs hesitating. Is that true or is that clever misinformation from Premier League / Uefa ?

Gazza M

the coaches and players of the big 6 also seem to have been totally rug pulled and left to fend for themselves in front of the media. that's the part that makes me feel these owners will stop at nothing to force this through

awooga83

goon wrote:
This may have been asked in the 9 pages already but out of interest, working on the assumption that the ESL would happen with or without us, would you guys prefer we were inside or out?

I have to say, despite all my disdain for the concept, I'd rather be in it.

I wouldn't follow Arsenal personally the way I connected with them has nothing to do with this and I have no interest being a team sitting at the bottom of these elite clubs every season so the owners can be rich with no need for competition which is what I enjoy in sport.

So I'd rather be out in a smaller financially premier League. You know this would be on some streaming platform as well at some insane price so I wouldn't be giving my money to that and would jack my season ticket in finally.

If you buy the guff that Perez is on the side of anything that isn't just about real Madrid making more money then good luck. A rule of thumb is what side is Perez on that's probably the bad guys in anything.

Gazza M

arseblog also raised the spectre of club relocation. given this move would erode boundaries and erode any form of regulatory oversight, there would be nothing stopping kroenke from moving arsenal like he did with the rams. the registered trademark is just for 'the super league' not the European super league. something something economic growth, something something high quality football

jones

Claudius wrote:
jones wrote:
You guys are talking about financial implications like those were happening just one way. The clubs breaking away are in deep shit themselves if this doesn't go as they hilariously seem to plan plus UEFA and FIFA hold a lot of sway over national FAs including the English one. Whatever happens it'll be a massive clusterfuck

It’s about leverage. These clubs have greater leverage since they are make the football economy turn. They know that the Premier League’s threat to throw them out is actually hollow because the entire football pyramid would go into bankruptcy across England, Spain and Italy.

These clubs don't make the football economy run. They are the spearhead yes but just like many clubs have survived Covid and reduced their wage bill in the process they would do the same when the money from big spenders dries up. And that's before you get to the part that just a small percentage of football players are actually churned out by their academies. There remaining football clubs weigh more than those twelve, don't let them fool you into believing otherwise.

KurtEisner

goon wrote:
This may have been asked in the 9 pages already but out of interest, working on the assumption that the ESL would happen with or without us, would you guys prefer we were inside or out?

I have to say, despite all my disdain for the concept, I'd rather be in it.

I'd absolutely rather be out. I can live with supporting a midtable club, I can live with supporting a Championship club, but I don't think I can bear supporting a club that has fired 55 employees and their mascot because they apparently needed to cut costs, whilst its billionaire yank owner was probably already negotiating this Super League that not only makes a mockery of the sport, but also conveniently gives us a shitload of cash just for participating. It's becoming more and more exhausting to follow Arsenal and football in general, and this is just the last straw. I spend my days analysing how shit capitalism is and what it does to society and the world, and I've continued talking myself into watching football, in spite of it representing a lot of the things I stand against, because I love Arsenal. But at some point I can't do that anymore and 12 billionaire cunts deciding to create their own playground, where they can do whatever the fuck they want, turn the biggest clubs in the world into "franchises" and Arsenal being a part of it is definitely that point.

I really hope this doesn't happen and we can somehow hound Kroenke out of the club afterwards, but I'm not that optimistic. Such a punch to the gut, I was actually really looking forward to the EL semifinals, I was starting to feel good about the team's future again with Saka, ESR, Tierney etc. and now all that is gone and I'm back to just being furious at the club and the sport, more than ever.

JazzG

jones wrote:
I'm not watching this. Just because FIFA UEFA Sky etc are scum doesn't mean I have to follow an even bigger evil just because it walks away from them. Nobody said you're supposed to feel sorry for them you're supposed to condemn the obvious money grabbing attempt of this dumb idea.

Perez says football has become boring and his solution is to cement the circle of clubs who can play each other. I'm genuinely baffled how anyone can not violently oppose this harebrained concept.

Are they a bigger evil or a different kind of evil? Look at the behavior of UEFA and FIFA, I've not seen anything to suggest these clubs are any worse than them.

A money grab most definitely but lets not pretend if UEFA had been in a position to shaft them over they wouldn't hesitate either.

KurtEisner

JazzG wrote:
jones wrote:
I'm not watching this. Just because FIFA UEFA Sky etc are scum doesn't mean I have to follow an even bigger evil just because it walks away from them. Nobody said you're supposed to feel sorry for them you're supposed to condemn the obvious money grabbing attempt of this dumb idea.

Perez says football has become boring and his solution is to cement the circle of clubs who can play each other. I'm genuinely baffled how anyone can not violently oppose this harebrained concept.

Are they a bigger evil or a different kind of evil? Look at the behavior of UEFA and FIFA, I've not seen anything to suggest these clubs are any worse than them.

A money grab most definitely but lets not pretend if UEFA had been in a position to shaft them over they wouldn't hesitate either.

What does it matter if they're a bigger evil or a different kind of evil? They're all assholes who need to be expropriated, we knew that before. But this ESL is definitely a bigger evil than the CL and that's what it comes down to, no matter the old pricks who line their pockets with it.

QuincyAbeyie

JazzG wrote:
jones wrote:
I'm not watching this. Just because FIFA UEFA Sky etc are scum doesn't mean I have to follow an even bigger evil just because it walks away from them. Nobody said you're supposed to feel sorry for them you're supposed to condemn the obvious money grabbing attempt of this dumb idea.

Perez says football has become boring and his solution is to cement the circle of clubs who can play each other. I'm genuinely baffled how anyone can not violently oppose this harebrained concept.

Are they a bigger evil or a different kind of evil? Look at the behavior of UEFA and FIFA, I've not seen anything to suggest these clubs are any worse than them.

A money grab most definitely but lets not pretend if UEFA had been in a position to shaft them over they wouldn't hesitate either.

Bigger obviously. If everyone could still be relegated they'd be the same level of evil.

Gazza M

JazzG wrote:
jones wrote:
I'm not watching this. Just because FIFA UEFA Sky etc are scum doesn't mean I have to follow an even bigger evil just because it walks away from them. Nobody said you're supposed to feel sorry for them you're supposed to condemn the obvious money grabbing attempt of this dumb idea.

Perez says football has become boring and his solution is to cement the circle of clubs who can play each other. I'm genuinely baffled how anyone can not violently oppose this harebrained concept.

Are they a bigger evil or a different kind of evil? Look at the behavior of UEFA and FIFA, I've not seen anything to suggest these clubs are any worse than them.

A money grab most definitely but lets not pretend if UEFA had been in a position to shaft them over they wouldn't hesitate either.

UEFA is a toothless corrupt governing body, but I don't think you're grasping the pandora's box of nonsense that this type of unfettered franchise football will unleash. I'm not in the 'footballs dead anyway, might as well take a slash on its corpse' camp

mdgoonah41

been thinking a lot about this in the last 24 hours and i have some assorted thoughts:

for anyone claiming that this has corrupted the game, id point to what chelsea and man city and PSG did when they were taken over by billionaires and spent ridiculous sums of money, basically breaking the transfer market and circumventing the rules that were then put in place with phony sponsorship deals. the game has been corrupted for almost 20 years. just as it was corrupted when the premier league was formed as a way to bring in more money.
this is still garbage, and i still hate it, but i think its pretty clear that the big clubs want more money, and given everything else, they probably deserve more money. no one outside of brighton cares about brighton matches. the rising tide lifts all boats, and the reality is that arsenal, the manchester clubs, livepool and chelsea are the rising tide that has lifted up all of those other clubs for the last 20 years. that goes against the romanticizing of the game, but it its true from a money perspective. people outside of england are tuning in to watch the big clubs, and that is what drives the tv deals. thats just the reality of football in 2021
i read somewhere that it takes 3/4 of clubs voting to make changes to the premier league. that would be 15/20 teams. 6 of those teams are now in this new dumb league, which means they can block their own expulsion or restriction from the premier league, right? what else can the league do? is the government really going to get involved and throw these teams out of the league? the other thing is, smaller clubs have a financial interest in keeping the big 6 teams in the premier league, because of bullet point #2 above. do you think a team like west ham wants to see the tv deal for the premier league reduced by 70% just so they can finish in the top 4 and then get to play in a competition that sees its television deal drop by 70% too?
this still really sucks. but its been coming for a long time. when kroenke gobbled the club up, that was the end of it. football hasnt really been "pure" in my lifetime, and to think otherwise is a bit naive. if this what puts you over the edge, fair enough. arsenal has been ruining my weekends for more than a decade, and im sure they will continue to do so moving forward, its not like i can just stop caring about the club ive supported for most of my life. id forgotten what it was like to get smacked around by barcelona and bayern as weve been in the europa wilderness, next season will be a reminder i guess.

QuincyAbeyie

mdgoonah41 wrote:
been thinking a lot about this in the last 24 hours and i have some assorted thoughts:

for anyone claiming that this has corrupted the game, id point to what chelsea and man city and PSG did when they were taken over by billionaires and spent ridiculous sums of money, basically breaking the transfer market and circumventing the rules that were then put in place with phony sponsorship deals. the game has been corrupted for almost 20 years. just as it was corrupted when the premier league was formed as a way to bring in more money.

I keep seeing this argument presented like the people who say this is corrupting the game have ever said that it isn't already corrupted. It's just whataboutism. We all know football has been pretty fucked for a while, but how does that change anything in regards to the ESL?

mdgoonah41

i think its just part of the natural progression. the rich clubs have always been looking for ways to maximize their bottom line. this was the next logical step and has been in the works for a while. i wasnt really surprised by it. it sucks, clearly. but its been coming. i always just assumed it would be threatened and used as leverage with UEFA, and maybe UEFA just thought it would never happen.

Qwiss

speedy wrote:
They'll definitely stay part of the premier League. The premier League hurts itself too much by kicking them out. They'll play hard ball but realistically they're not giving away their 7 most valuable assets.
If they did those 7 teams would just find another 10 English sides to have a super English league. These players are far to valuable to be not playing.

Its only a matter of time until the teams leave anyway, or start pushing the PL around more. Or completely destroy its value by making it an afterthought. At some point the FA and the PL need to stand up to this.

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
mdgoonah41 wrote:
been thinking a lot about this in the last 24 hours and i have some assorted thoughts:

for anyone claiming that this has corrupted the game, id point to what chelsea and man city and PSG did when they were taken over by billionaires and spent ridiculous sums of money, basically breaking the transfer market and circumventing the rules that were then put in place with phony sponsorship deals. the game has been corrupted for almost 20 years. just as it was corrupted when the premier league was formed as a way to bring in more money.

I keep seeing this argument presented like the people who say this is corrupting the game have ever said that it isn't already corrupted. It's just whataboutism. We all know football has been pretty fucked for a while, but how does that change anything in regards to the ESL?

Its not really whataboutism, its a series of events that leads to where we are now. That doesn't mean we have to accept more of it and more extreme forms of it. It could go the other way. I'm just not sure how. One things for sure though FIFA, UEFA, the FA, the Premier League, etc all brought us to this point. They totally fucked up, they made a deal with the devil this is what happened.

If somehow this gets blocked we need to find ways to safeguard against it in future.

Coombs

There isn't anything natural about capitalism, md.

Coombs

Exactly, qs. History is not whataboutism.

QuincyAbeyie

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I keep seeing this argument presented like the people who say this is corrupting the game have ever said that it isn't already corrupted. It's just whataboutism. We all know football has been pretty fucked for a while, but how does that change anything in regards to the ESL?

its a series of events that leads to where we are now. That doesn't mean we have to accept more of it and more extreme forms of it.

That's what I'm saying. We shouldn't accept worse just because it's already bad.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
If its happening I'd love to be out and just stay in the PL without the likes of City, United and Chelsea outspending us.

That wouldn't be the case though, they'd just have even more money than they already have while we'd most likely have less. Whatever they say this will significantly increase inequality with no prospect of that changing.

The question is are you happy to become a lesser evil mid table team in a rigged league or would you rather be one of the bad guys competing at the top?

It's a fucked up choice. The game is officially gone.

I'd still rather not be involved. I'd rather never play in Europe again than this shite. It holds no appeal for me. I'm not saying I'll stop following Arsenal but I wont care as much, and I certainly wont be paying for a subscription to watch this shit.

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