Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 94 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

goon

Out of interest, given that it seems highly likely Arteta will stay on, what would it take (for anyone who thinks he should go), to change your mind?

For me personally, a good transfer window is key. I'd love to come out at the end of summer and think that we have a lean squad in good shape, not just for the coming season but for the medium term too.

In terms of actual football, we need to create more chances. I don't really care how we do it, but we need to be able to create and convert chances regularly, I'd like to become a 70+ goal a season team again in the league. Until we manage to do that, I'll have no real confidence that even a good run of results can be sustained.

Qwiss

He'd have to finish in the top 4 next season to change my mind.

goon

I'd like us to show signs of being challengers for the league too. We're basically a season behind where we should be so he needs to make up for lost time.

Claudius

I believe we will both have a good transfer window and finish top 4.
You cannot underestimate the distraction of playing twice a week and never having had a pretty-season. By the end the team was on a decent run rate after things had settled. If we get a CM and right back we will finish top 4. Bringing in an AM will make it even more likely.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
I'd like us to show signs of being challengers for the league too. We're basically a season behind where we should be so he needs to make up for lost time.

My original expectations were to challenge for top 4 this season, definitely be in it by next season and then look like we are at least approaching a league title after that. The league challenge is a bit more contextual though, if someones running away with it and getting over 100 points I don't think we've a hope. We should be finishing over 70 points consistently after this season though.

Honestly though I don't see any of that happening under Arteta. I just don't see the consistency coming. He isn't getting the best from players, until he changes that we wont push on.

goon

What I mean by showing signs of challenging is that I'd like to watch us play and think the following year we could challenge if things click and we make the right signings. It sounds funny but I think Chelsea fall into that bracket, but United don't.

At the moment we look such a mess that I can't even begin to identify what needs fixing, which is a step backwards from how I felt last summer. Arteta insists we're closer, I guess time will tell.

Anzac

Arteta's Arsenal in Tactics
Tifo Football

jones

goon wrote:
Out of interest, given that it seems highly likely Arteta will stay on, what would it take (for anyone who thinks he should go), to change your mind?

For me personally, a good transfer window is key. I'd love to come out at the end of summer and think that we have a lean squad in good shape, not just for the coming season but for the medium term too.

Most of us thought we were halfway there last season. Instead we look worse than ever

I don't think there's anything he could realistically do to change my mind. The last shred of hope went out the window when he said our squad were playing at capacity. That's not a man willing or able to take a look at himself and fix his own flaws any time soon

Claudius

We don’t really look worse than ever though. Our form table says we are one of the best teams in the league. We have a few significant setbacks that sting (like Villarreal), but we are moving in the right direction generally.

If you were going to gamble, you’d bet on us finishing quite high up next season. Having an Odegaard type would help.

jones

We're in 9th or 10th, will finish the season with sub 60 points and sub 55 goals scored. That's even worse than Wengers final year in results and some 20 or 30 goals scored less. There's absolutely nothing to suggest we'll look better next season, the players look worse than they have a year ago and the outcome of this season is as deflating as it gets.

Unless you have some inside information that Arteta will be replaced soon you really shouldn't gamble man

Claudius

I’m just looking at his last 3/5 of the season, where he also had better players.
Look, if you are forecasting events, you are best off using most recent outcomes and we have a sufficiently long enough set of results. So what can we say? We can say things like he will perform at around a top 4 place, and he will favour his better players over the lesser ones, in a more attacking formation. You wouldn’t be in a position to say any of that in the first 2/5 of the season

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
if you are forecasting events, you are best off using most recent outcomes and we have a sufficiently long enough set of results. So what can we say? We can say things like he will perform at around a top 4 place

What makes you think that? You have to extremely selective about what games you choose to make case. If I was putting money on where we will finished next season I think 6th or lower is a much better bet than top 4.

jones

Why the arbitrary break after 2/5 of the season? Are we really that much better in the last two months than last fall? And who guarantees you that our players will stay fit next season?

Arteta is an absolute poverty manager. That's what I'd be basing my forecast on not a set of results starting from a point of my choice, we're playing some gutwrenching football and he's the architect of it.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
if you are forecasting events, you are best off using most recent outcomes and we have a sufficiently long enough set of results. So what can we say? We can say things like he will perform at around a top 4 place

What makes you think that? You have to extremely selective about what games you choose to make case. If I was putting money on where we will finished next season I think 6th or lower is a much better bet than top 4.

If we were great for the first 3/4 of the season and shit in the last quarter than people will of course select the results from the start and just said we tailed off. It was like this under Wenger too. Generally we try to find positives from terrible situations.

Meatwad

jones wrote:
We're in 9th or 10th, will finish the season with sub 60 points and sub 55 goals scored. That's even worse than Wengers final year in results and some 20 or 30 goals scored less. There's absolutely nothing to suggest we'll look better next season, the players look worse than they have a year ago and the outcome of this season is as deflating as it gets.

Unless you have some inside information that Arteta will be replaced soon you really shouldn't gamble man

find someone who carries water for you the way these lot do for arteta. how this poverty manager has devotees is absolutely amazing to me.

Claudius

Clrnc wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
What makes you think that? You have to extremely selective about what games you choose to make case. If I was putting money on where we will finished next season I think 6th or lower is a much better bet than top 4.

If we were great for the first 3/4 of the season and shit in the last quarter than people will of course select the results from the start and just said we tailed off. It was like this under Wenger too. Generally we try to find positives from terrible situations.

It wouldn’t make sense to extrapolate based on the first 3/4 of the season.

Consider this. Let’s say you went to a bar every night in the past year. For the first 3/4 of the year Jones comes for a pint. And then he stops. For the last quarter of the year, Goon has come in faithfully for his nightly pint. Tomorrow when you go to the pub, who would you most expect to see at the pub? Goon or Jones?

goon

jones wrote:
Why the arbitrary break after 2/5 of the season? Are we really that much better in the last two months than last fall?

In terms of performances I don't think we are except maybe we're creating a bit more, but in terms of results we amassed 5 points out of a possible 30 in that run from Oct-Dec, in the last 10 games we've managed 18 out of a possible 30.

That run in the autumn is absolutely an anomaly in my opinion, I think it's very unlikely to repeat itself.

To be clear, thinking that Arteta will be able to maintain our more recent form and challenge for the top 4 is hardly an endorsement of his management, I reckon 70% of the managers out there would be able to achieve the same.

Claudius

That’s a fair assessment, Goon

jones

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
Why the arbitrary break after 2/5 of the season? Are we really that much better in the last two months than last fall?

In terms of performances I don't think we are except maybe we're creating a bit more, but in terms of results we amassed 5 points out of a possible 30 in that run from Oct-Dec, in the last 10 games we've managed 18 out of a possible 30.

That run in the autumn is absolutely an anomaly in my opinion, I think it's very unlikely to repeat itself.

To be clear, thinking that Arteta will be able to maintain our more recent form and challenge for the top 4 is hardly an endorsement of his management, I reckon 70% of the managers out there would be able to achieve the same.

We haven't been higher than 9th in the table since match day five. This is our second time all season we've put together more than two consecutive wins, this time sandwiched between our crashing out of Europe without a goal from open play in 180 minutes. If you want to extrapolate into the future what we'll look like you'd have to take that into account as well instead of dismissing a ridiculous run of results (admitted a couple of freak ones among them) as being unlikely to happen again

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
If we were great for the first 3/4 of the season and shit in the last quarter than people will of course select the results from the start and just said we tailed off. It was like this under Wenger too. Generally we try to find positives from terrible situations.

It wouldn’t make sense to extrapolate based on the first 3/4 of the season.

Consider this. Let’s say you went to a bar every night in the past year. For the first 3/4 of the year Jones comes for a pint. And then he stops. For the last quarter of the year, Goon has come in faithfully for his nightly pint. Tomorrow when you go to the pub, who would you most expect to see at the pub? Goon or Jones?

What if Goon came out every night in January but since then his attendance has been a lot more sporadic and he wouldn't come on the lads weekend away to Poland?

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