Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 93 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Bosscielny

Took the words right out of my mouth. Couldn’t’ve put if better myself.

We snow flakes don’t use words like doomers though.

QuincyAbeyie

Diaby KungFu wrote:
What all the doomers on this forum don't understand is that if we had just won all of the games that we didn't win (in addition to winning all the games that we did win), we would have won the league this season.

It's always amusing to see the "what if that and that had happened" posts, like the other teams in the league haven't lost points they were close to winning as well. It's about as useful as saying "what if all the teams around us had 6 extra points?".

Bosscielny

We’d be in the same position we’re in now. Out of Europe. How fun are numbers?

Anzac

https://gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2021/05/12/arteta-back-him-or-boot-him/

https://www.justarsenal.com/5-reasons-why-arsenal-should-keep-arteta-and-5-against-you-can-decide/281912

https://shewore.com/2021/05/13/are-performances-against-other-big-sides-and-top-3-form-in-last-22-games-the-enough-to-stick-with-arteta/

https://gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2021/05/13/little-lucky-wins-back-one-nil-to-the-tenacious-arsenal-as-arteta-gets-it-right/

Anzac

MY PROBLEM WITH ARSENAL & ARTETA
James Lawrence Allcott

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Diaby KungFu wrote:
What all the doomers on this forum don't understand is that if we had just won all of the games that we didn't win (in addition to winning all the games that we did win), we would have won the league this season.

It's always amusing to see the "what if that and that had happened" posts, like the other teams in the league haven't lost points they were close to winning as well. It's about as useful as saying "what if all the teams around us had 6 extra points?".

Its even more entertaining right after we've just managed the flukiest win of the season.

goon

Ture but United managed half a dozen fluky wins in the first half of the season, not least the one that came after the full time whistle. There's no invisible equalising force out there that 'balances it out by the end of the seasons'. I also don't think there's anything wrong with generally pointing out that the margins are really fine, the Invincibles were an inch away from being nothing, Emery was 1 game away from potentially still being here. They can make a huge difference to how things pan out in reality.

In Arteta's case though, the margins are made tighter by our style. We don't score enough so every missed chance, defensive error or refereeing error is more pronounced. I said at the end of last season that we just had to turn a handful of our draws into wins, instead they've turned into losses. It's actually more damning than anything.

awooga83

I think luck is one thing it happens, but it's not the foundation for sustained success. Like you say Goon the way we approach games we basically cannot afford to score because we are probably only getting the odd goal so if we concede we almost certainly won't win.

Bosscielny

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
It's always amusing to see the "what if that and that had happened" posts, like the other teams in the league haven't lost points they were close to winning as well. It's about as useful as saying "what if all the teams around us had 6 extra points?".

Its even more entertaining right after we've just managed the flukiest win of the season.

I know right?

How do you think Chelsea feel? How do you think they’d be feeling if they had dropped points in, i’ll be modest, two or three similar games?

It sort of looks like now is the perfect time to make “what if that and that had happened” posts.

speedy

Someone mentioned to me earlier that were 3rd in the league since Christmas. That can't be right can it? That's the first time we've had a semi settled squad under arteta. And we've had hardly any fullbacks fit. How could we be 3rd since Christmas with Auba misfiring and CM filling in at LB and a CB filling in at RB.

lorddulaarsenal

Think it’s true

Gazza M

speedy wrote:
Someone mentioned to me earlier that were 3rd in the league since Christmas. That can't be right can it? That's the first time we've had a semi settled squad under arteta. And we've had hardly any fullbacks fit. How could we be 3rd since Christmas with Auba misfiring and CM filling in at LB and a CB filling in at RB.

but we were on relegation pace before Christmas. and saved two of our worst performances of the season for the two biggest games of the season. kind of negates the 2nd half of the season narrative, which doesn't bear up to any form of scrutiny just by using one's eyes and seeing the trends of micro-management, the convulsive pumping and dumping of players from the starting 11 for the last 12 months, the constant under-9s style bellowing from the sidelines that would make carcedo blush, the own goals in the press, the lack of emphasis on attacking football. what's the likelihood of a 180 on those behaviours?

Claudius

speedy wrote:
Someone mentioned to me earlier that were 3rd in the league since Christmas. That can't be right can it? That's the first time we've had a semi settled squad under arteta. And we've had hardly any fullbacks fit. How could we be 3rd since Christmas with Auba misfiring and CM filling in at LB and a CB filling in at RB.

I posted these numbers the other day. We are absolutely 3rd since Christmas. The day we moved to a 10 with ESR vs Chelsea was a game changer.

The other thing that’s not really said about that match, just 10 days earlier when we drew with Southampton, neither ESR nor Martinelli were available. We then then lost to Everton with both men on the bench. And then he sent them straight into the Premier League starting lineup, shifting us from 343 to 4231. There’s a common narrative that kids saved Arteta, but clearly he plays his best players when they’re available. And as soon as these kids were available, he expedited their integration and switched up the team.

We are pissed off because the beginning was so bad that he took us down to 15th. And this 3rd form doesn’t feel like it because it only gets us up to 8th or 9th. Those first 11 games were worthy of a sacking and complete banishing from football, but he’s turned it around since

Claudius

Gazza M wrote:
speedy wrote:
Someone mentioned to me earlier that were 3rd in the league since Christmas. That can't be right can it? That's the first time we've had a semi settled squad under arteta. And we've had hardly any fullbacks fit. How could we be 3rd since Christmas with Auba misfiring and CM filling in at LB and a CB filling in at RB.

but we were on relegation pace before Christmas. and saved two of our worst performances of the season for the two biggest games of the season. kind of negates the 2nd half of the season narrative, which doesn't bear up to any form of scrutiny just by using one's eyes and seeing the trends of micro-management, the convulsive pumping and dumping of players from the starting 11 for the last 12 months, the constant under-9s style bellowing from the sidelines that would make carcedo blush, the own goals in the press, the lack of emphasis on attacking football. what's the likelihood of a 180 on those behaviours?

Another example of our anchoring on that previous period. On xG, we are also 3rd in the league during that period since December 26. So we not only have the third best record, we also have the third best structured attack. We complain that it is slow and plodding but only City and United have outperformed it in terms of quality of creating chances since Dec 26.

This is why I’m really struggling with the idea of firing this manager. The numbers don’t support it

BWooley

Wenger also won league titles on a calendar year basis, which is higher in both position and over a longer timeframe than this whole "4th over a random stretch of 15 games" bit. Somehow that wasn't an indicator that he was getting his mojo back and rightly so. The loss to Villareal in a 2-legged game which was thoroughly deserved shows us the true level of this squad and the responsibility for that has to be on the manager. As someone said earlier in this thread, every single player bar those playing their first or second seasons in senior football has shown a higher level in prior seasons / teams. Surely that points squarely to our manager being the root cause of the problem. Anyway, all this moaning is in vain - Romano claims that Arteta is firmly in the saddle for next season.

speedy

BWooley wrote:
Wenger also won league titles on a calendar year basis, which is higher in both position and over a longer timeframe than this whole "4th over a random stretch of 15 games" bit. Somehow that wasn't an indicator that he was getting his mojo back and rightly so. The loss to Villareal in a 2-legged game which was thoroughly deserved shows us the true level of this squad and the responsibility for that has to be on the manager. As someone said earlier in this thread, every single player bar those playing their first or second seasons in senior football has shown a higher level in prior seasons / teams. Surely that points squarely to our manager being the root cause of the problem. Anyway, all this moaning is in vain - Romano claims that Arteta is firmly in the saddle for next season.

Hardly any footballs are having their best seasons. Hence why were third since Christmas.

The calender year thing didn't add up for Wenger because he had his team for a decade with no progression. Arteta was still forcing the wasters/ bad eggs out until Christmas.

The loss to Villarreal is a huge mark against him. But Emery knows these players inside out. We'd no fullbacks so it's was always going to be tricky. I'm not sure it's a stackable offence.

Claudius

No fullbacks, stars with COVID and malaria. Etc. And he still pulls out that record. I’m more interested in what he has done since round 14 than what he did before. First, it’s more recent so it’s a better predictor of what will happen tomorrow. That’s just passive probability. Second, he had more of his preferred players available over that period than before, so it’s more representative of what he can do given the resources

Anzac

If he's not going to be supported in the market (to get a team that is fit for purpose), then I fail to see the point in continuing with this project. If KSE has any doubts regards to Arteta then they need to pull the plug sooner rather than later, so as not to 'waste' even limited funds on a half arsed rebuild that will likely be neither one thing or another other than some middling mess.

Qwiss

Bosscielny wrote:
It sort of looks like now is the perfect time to make “what if that and that had happened” posts.

Go for it. Alternate history is fun.

Anzac

https://gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2021/05/16/artetas-conventional-3-4-3-vs-the-hybrid-3-4-3/

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