Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 9 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Gazza M

GooneriC wrote:
Why isn't Arteta forced to answer questions on Willian? He didn't get much stick for Saliba either. Feels like he is given a free pass because he is a nice guy with good hair.

he was getting peppered with questions about saliba pretty much until january, and was getting shitty about it

edu was forced to come out with that statement about willian in november because journos were pushing the kia connection everytime willians poor form was flagged

i don't think they got off scott free

GooneriC

Getting off way easier than Wenger or Emery. The lack of fans has been a massive help as well.

Big Willie

Gazza M wrote:
GooneriC wrote:
Why isn't Arteta forced to answer questions on Willian? He didn't get much stick for Saliba either. Feels like he is given a free pass because he is a nice guy with good hair.

he was getting peppered with questions about saliba pretty much until january, and was getting shitty about it

edu was forced to come out with that statement about willian in november because journos were pushing the kia connection everytime willians poor form was flagged

i don't think they got off scott free

Every game he played then?

Coombs

Willian has been roundly criticized to the point where Edu had to come out and try to defend him. It's just an old story now and they've moved on to our other problems.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

GooneriC wrote:
Getting off way easier than Wenger or Emery. The lack of fans has been a massive help as well.

He'd probably have been sacked in a normal climate, yep.

Don Pacifico

The club will be taking sentiment online, no question so I think that's overstated. I also think you're assuming fan power has far more impact than it actually does...

Claudius

I think the Willian issue is overplayed. Yes, he plays him a lot, but it’s not like we are overflowing with options. When Martinelli came back, Arteta rushed him back into the starting lineup. He’s slowing down with him for form or fitness reasons now. And Nelson is just a myth until proven otherwise at this point.

I am seeing progress with the team. That’s what makes me pause. This is unlike Emery where we spent 18 months watching a reactive playing style and increasing acquiescence to Ozil and company. In contrast, Arteta has stuck to his guns and chases the leeches out of the club. The only real issue we have right now is that we are not turning good build up into goals. We didn’t even have good build up 6 weeks ago. In another 6 weeks, I trust this will be resolved.

Claudius

It’s also frustrating to read the Arteta out crowd solely attributing anything good to the players when it is clear that Arteta is problem solving to get the best out of Pépé, ESR and Partey. He’d been setting up the 4231 before ESR and getting more bodies and passes up.

Of course that does not mean he’s infallible. Substitutions are a weakness. A few weeks ago he killed attack by moving Saka from RW to LB. Against Villa he also killed attack by taking Pépé from left to right and dropping Saka to LB. With Willian LW we now had 2 inverted wingers against a team that was effectively packed in a low block, killing our ability to stretch the field laterally. Maybe he needs Ljungberg back in the stands

speedy

With emery he spoke about 3 goals

Playing out from the back- their was no improvement on this and eventually he gave up on it.

Being defensively soild. Our defense was like a wet napkin, and shots littered our goal.

Be the protagonist- he had some success with this their was flashes of winger arsenal but they became less and less. It ended up being a fade out of front foot football.

With Arteta

He tried to make us defensively solid. Achieved this

He tried to get us to play out from the back
Achieved this

Tried to progress youngsters, achieved this.

Needed to improve the attack- failed

Create a mentality that allows us to compete in big games- achieved

There's reasons to be optimistic or pessimistic. For me at this juncture we have a split changing room emery hinted at it and having players not in the squad handing round. We always had our worst season under winter when players we planning on leaving. Its a small miracle he kept the wheels on at all. The next step for us as a club is to get the shitsters out who aren't serious about winning games. I think arteta is the man to do that. He has very low tolerance for loosers. Saliba is a moaning spoilt princess, has he given a interview where he's positive or takes responsibility for anything. Here 4 months and just moaned. These kinds of peers bring the changing room down. If he comes back with a good attitude he'll be fine. You never see holding, Luiz, KT, bellers etc moan. Just AMN who was involved with the team until he started moaning about everything.

I'm not sure arteta will have enough of currency left with the squad to bring us on. By the time he throws the loosers out.

Our goals for me- and they're not going to happen all at once
getting a serious changing room
Achieve top 4
Achieve consistent top four
Challenge for the title

I'm not sure how many of these Arteta can achieve. But I want him to finish the first one

Klaus

speedy wrote:
Create a mentality that allows us to compete in big games- achieved

We've lost 10 out of 23 games this season...

jones

Emery was successful in playing it out the back, relatively speaking. No worse than Arteta and he did it with Cech and Sokratis at times. Comparatively speaking Arteta had the easier job and better squad and bar performances in big games and the FA Cup win he did worse in pretty much every aspect, Emery would've gotten a trophy too if Auba and Koscielny hadn't diarrhoead the bed in Baku. Arteta has better pressers too if you want although his turtle necks are as grating as Emerys good ebening.

AAStyle

speedy wrote:
Our goals for me- and they're not going to happen all at once
getting a serious changing room
Achieve top 4
Achieve consistent top four
Challenge for the title

I'm not sure how many of these Arteta can achieve. But I want him to finish the first one

At what cost, Speedy? Even if that means Arsenal becoming some low table team that wanders around 10-15th?

goon

Not even going to get drawn into some of these arguments. Literally 135 mins ago we were unbeaten in 7, well on our way to making it 8, including 6 wins, having just played arguably our best 45 mins of the season. A couple of nightmarish red cards and mistake from our back up right back playing at left back and suddenly the narrative quickly switches back. The funny thing is, I actually think our football was decent in those 135 mins too given the circumstances. I just find it such a weird way to make an assessment.

banduan

jones wrote:
Emery was successful in playing it out the back, relatively speaking.

and then he gave up, as speedy said. It became a panicky mess so it's understandable.

Don Pacifico

AAStyle- wrote:
speedy wrote:
Our goals for me- and they're not going to happen all at once
getting a serious changing room
Achieve top 4
Achieve consistent top four
Challenge for the title

I'm not sure how many of these Arteta can achieve. But I want him to finish the first one

At what cost, Speedy? Even if that means Arsenal becoming some low table team that wanders around 10-15th?

Equally, if you keep changing the manager every 18 months, you can't build anything. We don't have the resources of Chelsea to go sign a couple megastars every time a new manager comes in.

It's fine line but simply sacking the manager isn't necessarily going to make things all better.

Claudius

banduan wrote:
jones wrote:
Emery was successful in playing it out the back, relatively speaking.

and then he gave up, as speedy said. It became a panicky mess so it's understandable.

Nobody talks about us playing out of the back anymore even though it is a core part of our identity. Arteta has embedded that, made the players comfortable.
What he has started doing is increasing our pressing. We are up to offensive half 40-50 pressures per game now, helping us get higher turnovers. That’s how Pepe gets his lovely goal against Wolves, for example. So the playing out of the back is just a hygiene factor now as we try to keep the ball closer to goal. Against Villa we had much more possession, territory and recoveries. We just struggled to break them down.

speedy

Klaus wrote:
speedy wrote:
Create a mentality that allows us to compete in big games- achieved

We've lost 10 out of 23 games this season...

Also correct.

speedy

jones wrote:
Emery was successful in playing it out the back, relatively speaking. No worse than Arteta and he did it with Cech and Sokratis at times. Comparatively speaking Arteta had the easier job and better squad and bar performances in big games and the FA Cup win he did worse in pretty much every aspect, Emery would've gotten a trophy too if Auba and Koscielny hadn't diarrhoead the bed in Baku. Arteta has better pressers too if you want although his turtle necks are as grating as Emerys good ebening.

Thats outrageous. We were completely horrific at playing out from the back. To the extreme that our entire gameplay when arteta took over was to let teams press us up the pitch so we could go through them when they're all spaced out. Teams don't let that happen now because we can play and from the back and couldn't before. We resorted to just hoofing it out under emery. Or conceding goals from trying to get the ball out consistently.

speedy

AAStyle- wrote:
speedy wrote:
Our goals for me- and they're not going to happen all at once
getting a serious changing room
Achieve top 4
Achieve consistent top four
Challenge for the title

I'm not sure how many of these Arteta can achieve. But I want him to finish the first one

At what cost, Speedy? Even if that means Arsenal becoming some low table team that wanders around 10-15th?

The point is, we need a manger to get the shit out. If we sack arteta then I'm fine with that. But to sack arteta and then bring in a new manger to pull the team apart will just create disharmony. That most managers won't come back from. I'd rather arteta does that and the next guy can come into a team rowing in the same direction. maybe make us top four and it might be 4 or 5 managers after him that eventually let's us mount a bit of a challenge who knows.

Claudius

Yeah. Let’s continue gutting the team of garbage.

I feel, to an extent, Chelsea used Lampard. They must’ve looked at their transfer ban and one million kids and thought Lampard was a low risk solution for navigating this period. And if he was brilliant, he could stay longer. Maybe we should be looking at Arteta the same way. And that means this summer we must finish the work of overhauling this team. If Arteta is good enough, he can continue. If not, go get Nagelsmann, but at least give him a coherent team

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