Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 83 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Claudius wrote:
And poor Arteta. As terrible as he is, you feel somewhat for him.

No you don't. You absolutely don't.

I can get behind being awful, not having good enough players, trailing in the table, even fall out of Europe, anything as long as we actually try to play a bit. I completely get being in way over your head and needing help. But I can't get behind the soulcrushing, clueless anti-football experiment that this absolute amateur has been running at the club for the last year. It's been some process alright. He's absolutely shameless too, that's the only reason he comes out for a semi-final against Villarreal and plays like we did across both legs.

Now he's in the papers talking about having to be ruthless this summer, that things have to change:

If we were ruthless, if we had an ounce of self-respect, he'd be gone today and there would be a lawsuit for fraud on the table. Spurs at their spursiest had more pride than this. This is the rise of the influencer manager; people without any sort of skills who turn themselves into the product they're selling.

Absolutely. I can't believe he is still here by the way. Our club is fucking spineless

jelbana

Klaus wrote:
Claudius wrote:
And poor Arteta. As terrible as he is, you feel somewhat for him.

No you don't. You absolutely don't.

I can get behind being awful, not having good enough players, trailing in the table, even fall out of Europe, anything as long as we actually try to play a bit. I completely get being in way over your head and needing help. But I can't get behind the soulcrushing, clueless anti-football experiment that this absolute amateur has been running at the club for the last year. It's been some process alright. He's absolutely shameless too, that's the only reason he comes out for a semi-final against Villarreal and plays like we did across both legs.

Wenger losing 8-2 didn't leave me with as much apathy toward the team as Arteta has done this year. It's truly joyless watching them, save for a few of the youngsters whose abilities overcome Arteta's extreme cautiousness. Honestly, this man refused to play Martinelli for months because he thought he was too eager. Likewise with Pepe, refuse to play him and started a pre-retirement Willian until he was literally forced to drop him.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Shocking (or not) that he's still here.

I despise this club.

Claudius

Here’s the thing. I don’t believe that if there is something wrong, you need to be 100% furious. There are a lot of things I have appreciated about Arteta but he’s clearly not the level required. I don’t blame him for taking this job and I don’t hate him for continuing to try now that he’s on the job. I wish he’d be replaced. But mad at a rookie manager finding his way, on training wheels on our subs bench. Pfft.

speedy

Claudius wrote:
Here’s the thing. I don’t believe that if there is something wrong, you need to be 100% furious. There are a lot of things I have appreciated about Arteta but he’s clearly not the level required. I don’t blame him for taking this job and I don’t hate him for continuing to try now that he’s on the job. I wish he’d be replaced. But mad at a rookie manager finding his way, on training wheels on our subs bench. Pfft.

This is exactly it, I remember metioning he was peps 3rd assistant when he got the job. With Brian Kidd being his 1st assistant. Nobody leaves uni and becomes a chief executive In a year. It was always going to be somewhat of a learning curve. And I think arteta has some real managerial talent and he's very intelligent. He has a lot of ideas but you have to test those ideas. And he's solving all these issues for the first time. Anyone who took this job was going to have. A mountain to climb.

Emerys an excellent coach he's proved that before and after he's been here. He described these players as asking for more than they give. And when arteta arrived Luiz mentioned how the player were unfit because they weren't training hard under Emery. So we were just fallin gback and sitting deep after 60 minutes during artetas initial 10 games.

Truth be told we've needed a top manager for a while but any top guys we were linked with distanced themselves. I could be wrong but I can't remember Any top guys throwing their hat in the ring.

Claudius

I think our fans are a bit delusional. They act like football isn’t the real world. The top engineers in the world want to go to Google and Microsoft because they will be paid well and will work on exciting projects.

The top managers in the world can’t think of Arsenal as a first choice destination. They know we don’t have the biggest budget. They know about our reputation in negotiating halls. They’ve seen our poor squad management. And I’m sure as professionals they recognise dozens of other things we are doing poorly that have stopped us from challenging for half a decade. So why would they choose us when there are many more serious teams? We will attract hasbeens and young men trying to break through. Until we signal that we are going to run our operations more effectively.

jones

Claudius wrote:
I think our fans are a bit delusional. They act like football isn’t the real world. The top engineers in the world want to go to Google and Microsoft because they will be paid well and will work on exciting projects.

The top managers in the world can’t think of Arsenal as a first choice destination. They know we don’t have the biggest budget. They know about our reputation in negotiating halls. They’ve seen our poor squad management. And I’m sure as professionals they recognise dozens of other things we are doing poorly that have stopped us from challenging for half a decade. So why would they choose us when there are many more serious teams?

Because Arsenal is a massive club that pays extremely well. There are maybe ten better jobs in world football. You mention the flaws we have which are all true but that's exactly what a manager will want to fix. Liverpool were able to attract Klopp when they were shit. Chelsea just got Tuchel despite their backline looking like a mess. Hütter is leaving a team headed to the CL for Gladbach who might play Conference League. And Arsenal are five times their size. If we gave Rodgers a call he'd drop Leicester quicker than he left his ex wife.

Clrnc

Wanted to reply the same but you put it better. The only thing delusional is pretending Arsenal isn't an attractive Job for managers, especially people who are unemployed like Allegro etc

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

The idea of Allegri barely inspires me for some reason.

I see him as an upmarket Emery.

Claudius

I don’t know. If you are the most elite managers, this is the Pep, Klopp, etc class, you have options and you can compare football clubs and say “I have the conditions in place to make me successful”. The same way you would look at a government department or start up and say I have the conditions in place to make successful.

Thought experiment. If every club fired its manager today and kept everything else and we were allowed to bid for managers, do you really think Arsenal would be the most favored destination of the very top managers? I think we fall behind at least 9 clubs globally. So it’s attractive but it’s not the job it was when guys like Kaka raves about us.

Claudius

For the unemployed, past it and young, the job is alluring and far and away the best you can get. Ancelotti would’ve liked Arsenal I’m sure.

What would serve us best right now is extensive back office recruitment. So get a good DoF, good analytics people, fill out the scouting team again. And then top managers will smell a recipe for success

Ray

If we were in the CL we might have attracted more managers. But I can’t see it now. They also know how easy the Arsenal fans turn on you.

Claudius

I actually think a first season out of Europe might not be that bad for some managers. It gives you a week between games to work on the training field and speed up the absorption of your ideas. But the owner would need to give the manager assurances that he will make up the lack of Champions League by investing £50-100m of his own cash in the transfer kitty

jones

Ray wrote:
If we were in the CL we might have attracted more managers. But I can’t see it now. They also know how easy the Arsenal fans turn on you.

No manager cares about stuff like that. Not like Arsenal fans had ultras who are known to assault their staff, but even clubs that do can attract capable personnel. Even disregarding all of that Arsenal fans don't turn on their manager any quicker than any other club why do you think we're special like that?

jones

Claudius wrote:
I don’t know. If you are the most elite managers, this is the Pep, Klopp, etc class, you have options and you can compare football clubs and say “I have the conditions in place to make me successful”. The same way you would look at a government department or start up and say I have the conditions in place to make successful.

Thought experiment. If every club fired its manager today and kept everything else and we were allowed to bid for managers, do you really think Arsenal would be the most favored destination of the very top managers? I think we fall behind at least 9 clubs globally. So it’s attractive but it’s not the job it was when guys like Kaka raves about us.

That's pretty much the same thing I said you just framed it worse.

goon

I think it’s more about timing than anything else. Some managers won’t take the job, I think Allegri is one of them, Pep wouldn’t even consider it either, they don’t want projects they want clubs to win them the CL.

I think most others are attainable if the timing is right. Rodgers for example would definitely join us, but would he do it just as Leicester qualify for the CL? Probably yes I’d say, but those are the sort of factors you’d have to consider.

Ray

jones wrote:
Ray wrote:
If we were in the CL we might have attracted more managers. But I can’t see it now. They also know how easy the Arsenal fans turn on you.

No manager cares about stuff like that. Not like Arsenal fans had ultras who are known to assault their staff, but even clubs that do can attract capable personnel. Even disregarding all of that Arsenal fans don't turn on their manager any quicker than any other club why do you think we're special like that?

I mean you just have to look at the way Wenger, Emery and Arteta have been treated, especially on social media type platforms.

I read somewhere Allegri is only interested in winning the CL now, so I definitely can’t see him (and most top managers) wanting to come to a club which has been outside the CL for half a decade.

Qwiss

Ray wrote:
jones wrote:
No manager cares about stuff like that. Not like Arsenal fans had ultras who are known to assault their staff, but even clubs that do can attract capable personnel. Even disregarding all of that Arsenal fans don't turn on their manager any quicker than any other club why do you think we're special like that?

I mean you just have to look at the way Wenger, Emery and Arteta have been treated, especially on social media type platforms.

If thats what keeping them from taking the Arsenal job they wont take any job in football management.

Ray

Arsenal have a big social media platform, i.e you aren't going to have an AFTV type following at most clubs. It's not worth the hassle.

Qwiss

Ray wrote:
Arsenal have a big social media platform, i.e you aren't going to have an AFTV type following at most clubs. It's not worth the hassle.

Every big club with a half decent size following has it. Sure if they want to go manage Hartlepool I'm sure they can avoid that sort of thing.

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