Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 104 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Claudius

Doc wrote:
Money also has quite a big diminishing returns. The difference between a 10m and 20m player is a lot more than btween a 50 and 60m. Spend per point doesnt mean much

It’s a terrible measure. It’s simpler to just show average position and indexed TCO for ten years and you will see that money talks.

The gray is a good example of bad use of stats due to the diminishing returns described by Doc.

Anzac

https://arseblog.com/2021/05/tactics-column-the-four-seasons-of-artetas-arsenal-in-2020-21/
The problem when it comes to evaluating this season is it remains unclear what Mikel Arteta wants a Mikel Arteta team to look like. How much of the first half of the season was an Arteta side? How much was the second half? How much did he, rightly or wrongly, compromise what he wants his team to look like because of a lack of faith in the players? Why has he been so slow to adapt and learn seemingly obvious lessons? And will he use the time to reflect now that he finally has some?

http://youaremyarsenal.com/arsenal-premier-league-2020-2021-end-of-season/

https://www.arsenalinsider.com/premier-league/where-arsenal-wouldve-finished-in-the-2020-21-pl-table-if-there-was-no-var/

goon

Doc wrote:
Money also has quite a big diminishing returns. The difference between a 10m and 20m player is a lot more than btween a 50 and 60m. Spend per point doesn't mean much

Depends what you're looking for. It's not to say that Leeds spend their money better than City, but I do think it's a good illustration of just how expensive each point becomes the further you go up the table. A good manager, good recruitment and a good academy can definitely get you punching above your weight but it needs to be backed up by real spending power for sustainable success.

Sicario

Conte has left Inter:

We should be all over him. As I’ve mentioned I’m #artetain unless an Elite manager becomes available....

Clrnc

Don't think we have the balls to go for him, but Conte is a true winner. Win with different clubs in 2 countries now.

His football is as boring as Arteta but he wins the ultimate thing. Pretty sure he will go to Spurs, Madrid will get Allegri and Zidane will return to Juve.

Sicario

Clrnc wrote:
Don't think we have the balls to go for him, but Conte is a true winner. Win with different clubs in 2 countries now.

His football is as boring as Arteta but he wins the ultimate thing. Pretty sure he will go to Spurs, Madrid will get Allegri and Zidane will return to Juve.

If he goes to Spurs we will be fucked. I cannot see them not succeeding without him. Probably will win the European Conference League and get top 4 etc.

Coombs

Arsenal fans would absolutely loathe Conte. Thought we wanted to "back" our youth?

banduan

Coombs wrote:
Arsenal fans would absolutely loathe Conte. Thought we wanted to "back" our youth?

always some dualism with these things.

Like saying how Tuchel turned Chelski around when he made a billion pound team even more defensive than Arteta's, scoring even less.

Shady

I can see things going wrong with Conte here. Think he'd abandon out youth as well as Kroenke not even backing him properly, and then pissing him off.

goon

Conte is a top head coach but he's also capable of leaving you with a right mess of a squad. He'd never join us though anyway.

AAStyle

Clrnc wrote:
Don't think we have the balls to go for him, but Conte is a true winner. Win with different clubs in 2 countries now.

His football is as boring as Arteta but he wins the ultimate thing. Pretty sure he will go to Spurs, Madrid will get Allegri and Zidane will return to Juve.

That would be great. In the meantime we get stuck with a guy who knows more about carrying cones for pep than actually managing a team.

Claudius

The last thing this club needs is a nut job who will come in, make specific selfish demands and disappear after 2 years. We just need to avoid everything short term

AAStyle

I wouldn't take Conte, but if I have to choose then clearly I would pick him over a guy that will take us to the very end of mediocrity. By the end of Arteta's tenure we will be more known as a mid-table team than as a Big6 of England.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
The last thing this club needs is a nut job who will come in, make specific selfish demands and disappear after 2 years. We just need to avoid everything short term

Does it get more short term than not selling Xhaka because we need him during AFCON? He's the only of our undesirables who's really in demand as well.

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Claudius wrote:
The last thing this club needs is a nut job who will come in, make specific selfish demands and disappear after 2 years. We just need to avoid everything short term

Does it get more short term than not selling Xhaka because we need him during AFCON? He's the only of our undesirables who's really in demand as well.

Lol.
I don’t like Xhaka much but he’s been one of our better players, particularly in 2021. We could be without Partey for up to 4 league and 2 FA cup games. Elneny is Egyptian, so if he stays he would also be off to Cameroon. If you bring Bissouma into that mix who is also off to AFCOn, what does that leave you in midfield with Ceballos gone?

Oh we could always depend on AMN and Azeez to steer us through that entire January period and probably cost us in both league and FA cup. You’re always full of critiques. What is your solution?

flobaba

@ Quincy: Precisely. Ideally we should not be making any plans that include Xhaka after this season. Unless we are simply aiming to get back into Europa and call it a day.

After all that talk, I would like to see what Arteta really meant when he used the word “ruthless”

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Does it get more short term than not selling Xhaka because we need him during AFCON? He's the only of our undesirables who's really in demand as well.

Lol.
I don’t like Xhaka much but he’s been one of our better players, particularly in 2021. We could be without Partey for up to 4 league and 2 FA cup games. Elneny is Egyptian, so if he stays he would also be off to Cameroon. If you bring Bissouma into that mix who is also off to AFCOn, what does that leave you in midfield with Ceballos gone?

Oh we could always depend on AMN and Azeez to steer us through that entire January period and probably cost us in both league and FA cup. You’re always full of critiques. What is your solution?

I want to sell Xhaka, it's no more of a critique than you saying we shouldn't.

I'm just asking why "nothing short term" applies to managers and signing players in their prime and not this case, where waiting to sell Xhaka will probably affect his price a lot since he's getting older and will have a year less left on his contract. No matter how you see it, spending the Xhaka money on a new CM wouldn't affect our funds any more than keeping Xhaka.

Claudius

Having a midfield without your top 2-3 CMs and only kids instead for 4-5 weeks might tank your season. And then it doesn’t really matter what your long term plan is. You’re drowning in midtable again.

If you look at the squad I proposed the other day, it has a lot of younger players coming in, and older players leaving. I have all of Willian, Laca, Cedric, Elneny etc out. I made the Xhaka exception due to AFCON.

goon

The guys you listed have no value though, Xhaka is the one who's actually worth anything and he's at a critical juncture with 2 years left on his deal and about to turn 29. By selling him you could actually replace him with someone good if you wanted to.

If we were in Europe I would have agreed with you but we simply can't afford to keep someone worth £20m as a back up specifically for a 4 week period of a season where we'll mostly be playing once a week.

I'd be more than happy to go into next season with this: Partey, New CM (non-Afcon), Odegaard, ESR, Willock, Azeez.

Claudius

goon wrote:
The guys you listed have no value though, Xhaka is the one who's actually worth anything and he's at a critical juncture with 2 years left on his deal and about to turn 29. By selling him you could actually replace him with someone good if you wanted to.

If we were in Europe I would have agreed with you but we simply can't afford to keep someone worth £20m as a back up specifically for a 4 week period of a season where we'll mostly be playing once a week.

I'd be more than happy to go into next season with this: Partey, New CM (non-Afcon), Odegaard, ESR, Willock, Azeez.

Makes sense overall. That rules out Bissouma. It means we have to go hard after Tchouameni or Guimaraes.

This AFCON is an issue. The one concern I do have for Cameroon is that they’re currently sitting at 0,2% of their population vaccinated, having started last month. I can see Uefa blocking their players from attending the tournament at this rate.

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