Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 131 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

jones

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
Spend 70m on a player who looked world class

He never looked close to world class to me or a sure thing:

goon wrote:
I have to agree. I don’t think he’d maintain anywhere near those numbers here either. But who knows.

goon wrote:
Meh, that's probably how Barca justified Dembele and Coutinho. Instead that's 1/4 billion riding the bench often enough. The risk that these guys won't work out has to be taken into account and Pepe is anything but a sure thing.

I was far from being the only one to think so too.

I don't think Pepe has been given the best chance to succeed but the flaws in his game were always going to hold him back, he might have developed into a good player but we was never going to be world class. His touch is just far too loose, never fully in control of the ball, in a league where you're only going to get a limited amount of space that was always going to let him down.

I've noticed more recently as well how poor his balance is. Stops him from really being able to get away from players.

There are virtually no sure things in football, maybe five players in world football where you can be 90% sure. Very small sample size of course but even Messi the best ever moved to a weaker league, from a weaker to possibly the best team in Europe and looks like a pretty shit signing so far.

That said I've seen plenty of Pepe to be a big fan long before we were linked to him. Never said he didn't have some learning and polishing to do but how's he supposed to do that under a coach who doesn't rate play or teach him. He got 22 goals and 11 assists from the wing in his best season there and like Clrnc says in a season where everyone thought he was very poorly used he got 16 goals in a lot less time than our golden boy Saka who got seven in the same position.

Again he wasn't a sure thing or flawless but the combination of his unorthodox dribbling and his left foot is very rare. 70m was pre-covid but there's a reason Lille asked for that much and four clubs met the price, people forget the hype about him and also what kind of players you could get for 40m back then, guys like Joelinton Malcom or Lozano left for that much in 019.

goon

I don't really mind us taking a risk on him and I don't think it's been a disaster or anything like that either, I just disagree with the notion that he was ever a £70m player, the flaws in his game were just too pronounced. I expected he'd become a productive starter rather than becoming one of the best players in the league - which in itself is fine - but the day was always going to come when you had to contemplate selling him for a big loss.

Qwiss

We shouldn't sell Pepe. We should be able to sign a striker without selling him and I don't think they'll sign a better winger to replace him. We are a team that generally lacks threat still and the last thing we need is replace Pepe with another technical security player like Willian or Odegaard.

Ray

Clrnc wrote:
He has 16 goals in like 40+ apps last year. That's not bad at all.

But yeah probably would sell since Arteta won't give him a run. Then get a top class forward Adeyemi and a cheap backup winger like Furuhashi we would be much better off

21 goals and assists in 30 starts.

flobaba

I’d sell him if we’ve identified a replacement who can give us a consistent base level of performance.

Pepe is still working out the kinks in his game, unfortunately, and no one knows if he will be able to make significant improvements to the aspects of his game that are currently lacking - ball retention, dribble success, passing accuracy in the final third, decision making, efficiency in front of goal.

They don’t call me fail fast flo for fun. Get him out of here while we can retrieve decent value. If Newcastle is dumb enough to make us a good offer (40-50m), we should take it and wish him good luck.

Qwiss

Our team can't sell for shit, you really think they're getting decent value out of Pepe?

flobaba

I mean that’s largely besides the point. If we lose money on the deal, it is what it is. But we have to make these decisions quickly, and be absolutely certain that we get it right at the second time of asking. A Tomiyasu type. It’s too critical a position for us to keep dilly dallying with.

jones

Or, you know, you try replacing the handyman instead of throwing half our tool box in the trash because the bloke has two left hands. Or do we try to fail fast with everyone else he falls out with or who starts underperforming

Pepe LeFrits

Pepe wouldn't be in the sell at all costs category but the longer he stays with us the more his value is likely to drop. If we can get a decent fee for him and there's another youngish forward we like who is available to replace him, it'd make sense to do it.

Mirth

Pepe isn't special. He may have been at one point but, whether it's through Arsenal's mismanagement or his own inability to control the ball that hasn't happened. Therefore it's worth cashing in on him as soon as a decent offer comes through.

Anzac

The 'issue' re Pepe is that he is behind both Saka and ESR so he is a wasted 72m asset sitting on the bench, and any fee received can be utilised to improve the starting XI where needed elsewhere.

Klaus

Viewing Pepe as a 72 million asset is just a sunk cost phallacy. He's not ever going to go for 72 million again. We have to disregard what we paid for him. That money is gone and you can't recuperate some of it by selling him for cheap, that's not how things work. Players aren't balance sheets.

The question is whether he brings something different to the table, and I think he does. I think he should be playing right now. Unless we get a very good offer, and I doubt we will, it would be a bad idea to sell him. Another point to consider is that the players in our attack are either old or very young at the moment, and he's the only one bridging that gap.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Viewing Pepe as a 72 million asset is just a sunk cost phallacy. He's not ever going to go for 72 million again. We have to disregard what we paid for him. That money is gone and you can't recuperate some of it by selling him for cheap, that's not how things work. Players aren't balance sheets.

The question is whether he brings something different to the table, and I think he does. I think he should be playing right now. Unless we get a very good offer, and I doubt we will, it would be a bad idea to sell him. Another point to consider is that the players in our attack are either old or very young at the moment, and he's the only one bridging that gap.

I don't disagree, although I do suspect that much of our holding onto players for too long (such as the likes of Xhaka, Laca, Ozil, Mustafi etc), has been done because of the fee/wages paid and trying to get some value in terms of balancing the books re player amortisation, rather than either cutting our losses and actually seeking to improve on them.

flobaba

Bringing something “different” to the table is meaningless if that thing isn’t consistently resulting in a positive impact on the team’s performances and results. What you need is something effective.

Based on what we’ve seen from Pepe this season whenever he has been called upon, we are better off without him in the starting line up. One bad game/loss against a superior team doesn’t change that. No one was calling for him to be playing during our positive run pre Liverpool.

Loan him out if you must, to a team where he can showcase his budget Mahrez skills and hope they bite.

But I’d definitely be looking for his replacement as hard as I would be looking for Xhaka’s and Lacazette’s and Auba’s.

goon

We're definitely better off with Pepe in the squad than not, as pointed out in terms of proven end product he's second only behind Auba. The question is if we did get a £30-40m offer could we replace him with someone who at least potentially offers more.

Klaus

flobaba wrote:
Bringing something “different” to the table is meaningless if that thing isn’t consistently resulting in a positive impact on the team’s performances and results. What you need is something effective.

Over the last few years only Auba has scored more goals I think, and only Saka has more assists. He clearly brings end product to the table along with an unpredictable element which isn't currently fancied, but it's how you unlock a defence. Our entire game is based on giving the ball to Saka and praying that he can come up with something. That's not a sustainable strategy. We need more alternatives.

If we're discussing effectivity I think we need staff who can get more out of guys like Pepé. It's not just Arteta, it's the coaches he has working under him too.

jones

flobaba wrote:
. No one was calling for him to be playing during our positive run pre Liverpool.

Yeah they were.

Klaus summarised it, don't really matter who's put out there when our coaches are a rag tag team of dummies with zero or negative coaching experience.

Ray

goon wrote:
We're definitely better off with Pepe in the squad than not, as pointed out in terms of proven end product he's second only behind Auba. The question is if we did get a £30-40m offer could we replace him with someone who at least potentially offers more.

Why should we have to sell to buy, or money be an issue. Spending £80m on Ramsdale and White should be proof by now that we have money if we need it. If we need to keep Pepe we should. And realistically we don’t have too many good options upfront when it comes to end product.

Burnwinter

Qwiss! wrote:
Our team can't sell for shit, you really think they're getting decent value out of Pepe?

The issue is really that none of our alternative options up front are getting minutes or confidence at the moment. Selling Pépé would be easier to think about it he was getting tested or one of Martinelli or Nketiah was coming through and producing something. The current situation is gradually devaluing all these players. Granted Martinelli has had big trouble recovering from injury but he looked potentially world class at one point—languishing now.

We don't really know what potential we have in Pépé now, so it's not surprising there's a bit of variation about whether to sell and at what value.

jones

Burnwinter wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Our team can't sell for shit, you really think they're getting decent value out of Pepe?

The issue is really that none of our alternative options up front are getting minutes or confidence at the moment. Selling Pépé would be easier to think about it he was getting tested or one of Martinelli or Nketiah was coming through and producing something. The current situation is gradually devaluing all these players. Granted Martinelli has had big trouble recovering from injury but he looked potentially world class at one point—languishing now.

We don't really know what potential we have in Pépé now, so it's not surprising there's a bit of variation about whether to sell and at what value.

Spot on. There's already some rewriting of history going on reading how Pepe never looked close to world class etc, same will happen with Martinelli soon enough "oh he's never looked like he'd amount to anything". Understandable somewhat that people don't want to spend all day slamming the bloke in charge for the failures of others but look around at every club in Europe it's the same, the manager/head coach is always by far the most important single factor for how teams and players look. Tuchel took over a team that was treading water and now he's leading the table with 4 conceded goals all season with a team including a 50 year old Thiago Silva and nobodies like Chalobah or Reece James. We spend 200m on a bunch of talented players and get all excited after a couple of close wins.

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