Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 130 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

Burnwinter

"Lack of coaching" isn't an actual lack of coaching, just a different style. Whatever Wenger did with the forwards, it had a rather different impact to what we're currently doing.

My main recollection is the stories that would emerge of there being a lot of short-sided scratch play in tight spaces under his tenure. So that was a big feature of his approach and no doubt there was a framework, an ideology and a lot of profound French-accented philosophy behind it too. You can't really call that "lack of coaching" can you?

KingslandBarge

'Lack of coaching' is frankly an insult to a great who showed a keen eye on player development, game dynamics, tactics and a strong conviction in defining and implementing a framework that reflects his playing philosophy. Though trust you just meant different goon.

https://www.givemesport.com/1754386-arsenal-latest-news-arteta-and-edu-told-joe-willock-completely-different-things-before-newcastle-transfer

goon

Lack of coaching is probably a lazy and inaccurate choice of words but given the context of what we're discussing (the idea that Arteta is overcoaching and should give players more freedom) I would think the intention behind the phrase is pretty obvious.

Anzac

KingslandBarge wrote:
https://www.givemesport.com/1754386-arsenal-latest-news-arteta-and-edu-told-joe-willock-completely-different-things-before-newcastle-transfer

Not a good sign of being on the same page if true.
IMO whilst Willock doesn't suit as part of a 2 CM midfield IMO he is suited to playing as a #8/10 in a midfield V.
I suspect he was sold for much the same reasons as Martinez = he was the only player sold for money last summer just as with Martinez the previous summer.

KingslandBarge

Agree Anzac. Though it is just rumor, could be sign of polarized outlook and decision making between the two. If there was a situation to describe as 'panic sell', the Willock transfer may well be one.

Anzac

KingslandBarge wrote:
Agree Anzac. Though it is just rumor, could be sign of polarized outlook and decision making between the two. If there was a situation to describe as 'panic sell', the Willock transfer may well be one.

I know I keep banging this drum but IMO it's another example of the club looking to put financial considerations ahead of the team, in that they are behaving much as a selling club whether they want to admit it or not. What makes it worse IMO is they are essentially taking the easy way out as a result of their being unable to complete the purge across 2 summers, COVID or not = they are still wanting to see some value in generating revenues in addition to reducing the wages. IMO they are cutting off their nose to spite their face, and it is the team that suffers despite their talk of process, as we are still losing ground rather than closing the gap.

I understand we are in a depressed market and there is no money and the focus is on sustainment etc, however IMO we are essentially acting conservatively on principle as an excuse opposed to looking to take advantage of the opportunity.

Qwiss

If he was sold for financial reasons it just raises even more questions about the spending.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
If he was sold for financial reasons it just raises even more questions about the spending.

I'm not even thinking about sales in terms of generating revenues towards the purchases, but just on the principle of having some inwards cash flow and revenue generation so that it isn't all one way traffic = again it's a financial priority with the team yet again being required to 'foot the bill' and to prop up the club's flawed financial strategy, rather than to address the problem.

Clrnc

He's been extremely impressive for Stuttgart again this season. Kinda hope they get relegated so the deal don't go through.

Burnwinter

Anzac wrote:
KingslandBarge wrote:
https://www.givemesport.com/1754386-arsenal-latest-news-arteta-and-edu-told-joe-willock-completely-different-things-before-newcastle-transfer

Not a good sign of being on the same page if true.

Not exactly. A lot can happen in a few days in a transfer window—like, say, handing Xhaka a much debated contract extension, which was announced six days before Willock's transfer made the news.

Seems certain all this stuff was heavily discussed internally and very normal that Willock only got the good news about his possible Arsenal future at first.

BWooley

Clrnc wrote:

He's been extremely impressive for Stuttgart again this season. Kinda hope they get relegated so the deal don't go through.

I remember a quote from Mislintat somewhere that if they get relegated, they still have an option to sign him? Anyway, we have way too many CBs on our books as is, let alone creating room for an oft injured one.

jones

Yeah they have an option to buy him anyway, Mislintat said he's theirs regardless.

Asterix

Rumours that Newcastle, Everton and Palace are interested in Pepe. We'll never get the fee back for him but perhaps we need to take our medicine and just get something back. He should still be worth a pretty penny - he scores goals. Newcastle seems an obvious link - they will be linked with everyone in the next couple of months.

https://www.football365.com/news/premier-league-trio-interested-in-arsenal-outcast-pepe

Burnwinter

Says nothing about a projected fee, but anything over about £35m would be a great move for us.

I think Pépé could still (re-)explode at another club, but I don't think he's got the orderly mentality we need if he's only going to be used intermittently.

Pepe LeFrits

It would. Sell him and replace him with somebody who has a first touch.

jones

Spend 70m on a player who looked world class, ruin him in no time and sell him for less than half. Would be horrible fucking business and knowing our dealings very likely to happen, watch Arteta gift him away for 10m.

goon

He'll be 27 with two years left on his deal in May. I don't mind him at all as a squad player but if a good offer comes along it would be mad not to take it unless he establishes himself in the squad by then.

Clrnc

He has 16 goals in like 40+ apps last year. That's not bad at all.

But yeah probably would sell since Arteta won't give him a run. Then get a top class forward Adeyemi and a cheap backup winger like Furuhashi we would be much better off

goon

jones wrote:
Spend 70m on a player who looked world class

He never looked close to world class to me or a sure thing:

goon wrote:
I have to agree. I don’t think he’d maintain anywhere near those numbers here either. But who knows.

goon wrote:
Meh, that's probably how Barca justified Dembele and Coutinho. Instead that's 1/4 billion riding the bench often enough. The risk that these guys won't work out has to be taken into account and Pepe is anything but a sure thing.

I was far from being the only one to think so too.

I don't think Pepe has been given the best chance to succeed but the flaws in his game were always going to hold him back, he might have developed into a good player but we was never going to be world class. His touch is just far too loose, never fully in control of the ball, in a league where you're only going to get a limited amount of space that was always going to let him down.

I've noticed more recently as well how poor his balance is. Stops him from really being able to get away from players.

Gazza M

pepe was awful business, and that's not hindsight talking. from the jump he looked worth 40m max to me, even coming off his best season in france

[font=Source Sans Pro]lets chill a bit here. pepe can be a mess at times, with rough touches and ill-advised dribbling into cul de sacs, especially when spaces are limited. he's got some developing to do if he's to become a complete player[/font]

I think there's a reason top clubs are baulking at the fee. He's had 1 good season in ligue at 24 years of age.

from when we were close to signing him in 2019, and sadly not alot has changed with him since then

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