Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 128 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

KingslandBarge

Dules what about Raphinha? Fits the profile you may be keen on. Admittedly I have familiarized via highlights only

QuincyAbeyie

@Dules I agree with the latter. I just think they both operate better on the right and better on the left than Zaha.

Qwiss

We have plenty of good attacking talent, we don't need Zaha. If you sign someone like that you might as well give up on Martinelli altogether. We just need our attack to be coached as a unit.

goon

If you sign someone to block the pathway of kids it needs to be someone world class or close to it. Not Zaha.

Qwiss

Exactly. Zaha wouldn't even be a nailed on starter for us on merit. The issue now is top tier player just aren't going to want to come here so you do what the club did this summer and sign younger players who are good but not quite there yet and hope they take big jump. Other than that you back our brilliant youngsters like Saka and ESR and try to bring through the other good ones too like Martinelli, Balogun, etc No point signing career midtablers who are about ready to start their decline.

lorddulaarsenal

KingslandBarge wrote:
Dules what about Raphinha? Fits the profile you may be keen on. Admittedly I have familiarized via highlights only

Excellent player. Favours the right though

lorddulaarsenal

Need a left sided attacker - our options are garbo. If not Zaha Sterling

lorddulaarsenal

Don’t think it’s a coaching issue - we have enough of the ball in the attacking third for the players to make things happen. They just don’t have the right traits.

Rohit

I don't understand how anyone who has watched us over the last season or so thinks that our quality of football is not down to the coach / manager. Look around Europe, if not the a Premier League, and teams with lesser quality play and do much better.

It's one thing believing in the potential of Arteta, even if it's based on nothing other than a hunch, as there is very little to go on but our football is completely on him.

Coombs

Qwiss! wrote:
We have plenty of good attacking talent, we don't need Zaha. If you sign someone like that you might as well give up on Martinelli altogether. We just need our attack to be coached as a unit.

We need the exact opposite. As many have argued (and even Arteta has acknowledged), we are over-coached right now. We need the players to make things happen on their own and execute consistently. It's some combination of the coach giving them freedom and the players taking more responsibility. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

jones

When did Arteta acknowledge we're overcoached? Genuine question

If he does it's not relevant to the issues we're seeing in attack. It might well be that he's micromanaging and suffocating the players in training and from the sidelines, doesn't mean that the players aren't badly in need of some instruction on how to move, give and go, creating patterns triangles all that shit. If it were just up to the players and their responsibility they would've found some form at some point in the last 18 months, but even during the "better" spells we were absolutely tragic to watch going forward.

Qwiss

Call it what you want, they aren't being coached to attack correctly. They are too far apart and end up being forced to do things alone too often, you don't have to drill the forwards full of automatisms do coach them as a unit.

Coombs

It was in the post game along with the stuff about it being the best 15 days of his football career, so grain of salt I guess. Said something about over coaching and that the players don't deserve that. Felt quite self reflective even if he wasn't being explicitly self critical.

Anyway, I never said that's the only thing we need, but the idea they need a manager to tell them how to give and go or make a triangle is mad. They're professional footballers, not U12s.

Ricky1985

Pépé had the most touches of any player against Norwich. He was one-on-one with their left back loads of times. He did some damage but not as much as you'd like. I don't think the attacking shape/pattern was the problem there. The team created the overloads.

goon

We could have got it to Pepe a lot more in that game too. He was on my side and was regularly in acres of space if we could switch the play quicker but often by the time it gets to him the space is gone. Half the issue is how slowly we work the ball around, the other half is movement, both rely on each other. If we're going to do anything under Arteta this has to be the priority issue to address.

Captain

Coombs wrote:
It was in the post game along with the stuff about it being the best 15 days of his football career, so grain of salt I guess. Said something about over coaching and that the players don't deserve that. Felt quite self reflective even if he wasn't being explicitly self critical.

Anyway, I never said that's the only thing we need, but the idea they need a manager to tell them how to give and go or make a triangle is mad. They're professional footballers, not U12s.

Depends if the coach is demanding they do the opposite.

jones

Coombs wrote:
It was in the post game along with the stuff about it being the best 15 days of his football career, so grain of salt I guess. Said something about over coaching and that the players don't deserve that. Felt quite self reflective even if he wasn't being explicitly self critical.

Anyway, I never said that's the only thing we need, but the idea they need a manager to tell them how to give and go or make a triangle is mad. They're professional footballers, not U12s.

Well if they're professional footballers what do we even need a coach for then.

goon wrote:
We could have got it to Pepe a lot more in that game too. He was on my side and was regularly in acres of space if we could switch the play quicker but often by the time it gets to him the space is gone. Half the issue is how slowly we work the ball around, the other half is movement, both rely on each other. If we're going to do anything under Arteta this has to be the priority issue to address.

This is painfully obviously the main issue. I mean if ofty sees it I don't know what to tell you Coombs.

Qwiss

Ricky1985 wrote:
Pépé had the most touches of any player against Norwich. He was one-on-one with their left back loads of times. He did some damage but not as much as you'd like. I don't think the attacking shape/pattern was the problem there. The team created the overloads.

I thought it was exactly the problem. Pepe was in the box headed to the by-line so many times with just Auba to pass to. Same but the other way round when Auba was in those positions. They need more support, more options, drag the defence around a bit more.

Clrnc

Coombs wrote:
Anyway, I never said that's the only thing we need, but the idea they need a manager to tell them how to give and go or make a triangle is mad. They're professional footballers, not U12s.

Yeah and then why Wenger's team have so many triangles and 1-2s while Stoke City have none? Both have professional footballers mind you. Wenger's team have so many give and go opponents specifically targets that for counter attack.

Coombs

Captain wrote:
Coombs wrote:
It was in the post game along with the stuff about it being the best 15 days of his football career, so grain of salt I guess. Said something about over coaching and that the players don't deserve that. Felt quite self reflective even if he wasn't being explicitly self critical.

Anyway, I never said that's the only thing we need, but the idea they need a manager to tell them how to give and go or make a triangle is mad. They're professional footballers, not U12s.

Depends if the coach is demanding they do the opposite.

Exactly.

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