Who would you get to replace Arteta?: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Who would you get to replace Arteta?

GooneriC

The club probably needs a Rangnick. Dickhead but he gets things done.
The problem is convincing him to come here. Not sure he would take up this project.

y va marquer

Is the expectation that a new manager will have to start from scratch in terms of gutting and rebuilding the team?

Or do we have a core unit of quality players that need to be given added support to get over their apathy, their losing habits, in order to go out there week in week out expecting to win?

Do the players look around the dressing room and think no way am I winning anything with this lot or do they look at the manager and think no way am I winning anything with him at the helm, or maybe both?

If it's both then we're screwed for many a season to come as we're not going to buy our way out of this.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Claudius wrote:
I have enjoyed watching Ajax these last few years. Ten Haag is no 90s van Gaal, but he’s good. That said, every time I see him I just think of that collapse against Spurs. Will he do that to us?

If he collapses us in the CL semis, I'll take it.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Galtier don't play attacking football though, he is a pure counter attacking coach. I feel he will be another Emery, good with small clubs but out of his depth at big ones.

Counter attacking football isn't the opposite of attacking football. Just as possession football can be sterile and lack attacking threat. Wenger came in and we were a counter attacking side but we played great football. Most of Liverpools best football is played on the counter. We need to get the ball from back to front quickly, this slow patient build up is painful to watch. We don't have the players for it and even with a raft of new players I'm not sure you'd ever win anything with it.

Coombs

I don't think the slow buildup is by design, though. When both of Emery and Arteta first came in, there were signs of quick counter-attacking play down the length of the pitch, and with Arteta in particular, of forcing turnovers higher up to create threats. We don't do either of those now, and it's not because the players aren't good enough or because of the tactical setup.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Think we have to appoint a manager with some kind of attacking philosophy. We've had two defensive tinkerers in a row and they haven't gotten results. No one wants to play for them in the long run because when things go bad you're not just unsuccessful, you're boring and mentally exhausting too. The equivalent of going to a job you hate every morning.

You might get Stoke to play that way with a team that punched above its weight just to stay in Premier League, but you can't do that if you're a top club (relative as that term is we're still one of the biggest clubs around) and has the capacity to attract quality players. With higher quality comes higher demands on the football.

It's fairly easy to get players to buy into ideas of progress if they can feel and see it for themselves. When we were at our lowest last season some structure and routines were needed, and Arteta became a point around which the players rallied a little. He's been found wanting this season when he started from scratch though and it quickly became apparent that he can't build anything of his own.

Agreed.

IMO a big component in game management is to use the scoreboard to create pressure. TH are almost purely counter attacking and don't create a lot more than we do, but they have the efficiency we had last season and we now lack.

The problem if you cannot score is the scoreboard then works against you and saps your mental and physical energy.

Anzac

Coombs wrote:
I don't think the slow buildup is by design, though. When both of Emery and Arteta first came in, there were signs of quick counter-attacking play down the length of the pitch, and with Arteta in particular, of forcing turnovers higher up to create threats. We don't do either of those now, and it's not because the players aren't good enough or because of the tactical setup.

I do think there has been an adjustment re the return to 3 subs, the shortened pre-season & compressed season, and the early injuries in defence. I think we are being conservative in order to not burn players out - particularly the youngsters, and the strategy is to have better energy in the back half of the season. SAF used to do this constantly.

Anzac

Do any of us entertain the idea of appointing either TH or PV?

Coombs

No, both seem to be poor-to-mediocre managers. Really don't like any of the names on this list, either.

Anzac

Have seen Campos mentioned as another alternative to Rangnrick as DoF, as he is also available.

Claudius

Anzac wrote:
Have seen Campos mentioned as another alternative to Rangnrick as DoF, as he is also available.

Yeah. They released him last week. He’s early sixties, same age as Rangnick. I think both men should be charged with implementing all the necessary technical systems, particularly the playing philosophy and recruiting. Within that four years, they should train up a new DoF. If Edu is humble enough, I think he should accept going under their wing. And then get a coach if it’s Campos, or let Rangnick coach if he wants to as well.

One thing that is perplexing. Wenger says from the time he left, the staff went from about 100 to 700. So who are all the people we were hiring if we are so thin on football leadership? 100 different guys to manicure all the football fields?

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Have seen Campos mentioned as another alternative to Rangnrick as DoF, as he is also available.

Yeah. They released him last week. He’s early sixties, same age as Rangnick. I think both men should be charged with implementing all the necessary technical systems, particularly the playing philosophy and recruiting. Within that four years, they should train up a new DoF. If Edu is humble enough, I think he should accept going under their wing. And then get a coach if it’s Campos, or let Rangnick coach if he wants to as well.

One thing that is perplexing. Wenger says from the time he left, the staff went from about 100 to 700. So who are all the people we were hiring if we are so thin on football leadership? 100 different guys to manicure all the football fields?

Not having read his book my recollection from when he left he said his big regret was he felt he lost control as the staffing went from about 50 when he joined, to over 350-500 by the time he left. He also said his other roles within the club took up too much of his time away from the football.

In terms of changes the obvious ones are the likes of StatDNA and a commercial team, as well as the expansion of our staffing regards to our medical facilities, fitness training etc, and the additional staffing for daily duties to keep it all ticking over.

I do recall seeing some numbers at the time of the redundancies that indicated our staffing numbers are several hundred higher than the likes of MC & most other big6 clubs.

Ray

For a start Rangnick seems to rate Guendouuzi, would do wonders for the young talent we have here.

Claudius

Yeah. He wrote that players now spend too much time on marketing. Never have a quiet moment alone after practice. All their spare time is taken up making adidas videos. But that’s a challenge for all clubs I imagine. We need to work out how to best optimize the time we do have with them, and to make sure they are the right recruits in the first place.

JazzG

jones wrote:
Salzburg play that way regardless of their coach because of their academy setup. Not saying Marsh couldn't be a talented coach mind.

I'd go for Rangnick. Dickhead that he is he probably has the highest chance of turning this shit around

I’ve read lots about the good job he did at the Red Bull clubs but have heard a few people say he can be difficult. Why do you think he is a dickhead?

Also would he better as the coach or higher up?

Asterix

Interesting articles here on Rangnick - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/sports/soccer/man-united-RB-leipzig-ralf-rangnick.html

https://breakingthelines.com/historical/ralf-rangnick-the-hoffenheim-diaries/

Claudius

Thanks for sharing, Asterix

Rangnick transformed the way his teams played — either as a coach or as a technical director — because he transformed the structure behind them. He left Red Bull in the summer, but a much-anticipated move to A.C. Milan never materialized. Wherever he lands next — ideally, he has said, in England or Germany — he will expect to do the same.

At Leipzig, players were expected to arrive at the training facility 90 minutes before a session started so they could undergo saliva and blood tests; within 30 minutes, Rangnick and his staff would know how much the players would train that day, and how hard. They tested for allergies — gluten and lactose — and tailored their players’ diets. They brought in an expert to help teach them how to maximize their sleep.

The guy takes a holistic approach. All the fancy names that people are throwing out can trace their education and ideas to him. That’s why I really believe it would be a good idea to bring him in in some capacity, either as DoF or as joint DoF/manager to overhaul how we operate. He is one of the few people who can transform the entire operation top to bottom and end all the various ailments that hurt us. I worry that a pure manager is just going to come in and suffer as both Emery and Arteta have done. We can’t keep repeating the same mistakes.

QuincyAbeyie

This is the same kind of no-brainer as when Klopp was available and it was obvious that Wenger's time was over.

Claudius

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
This is the same kind of no-brainer as when Klopp was available and it was obvious that Wenger's time was over.

So what’s your expected outcome?

QuincyAbeyie

Obviously that it doesn't happen. 😆

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