Who would you get to replace Arteta?: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Who would you get to replace Arteta?

Claudius

What is sad is after a decade of inaction and doublespeak, Gazidis actually tried to leave us with a solid structure on his way out. Ensure there were enough football men and all that. And it imploded.

Klaus

I don't think you guys should be so afraid of making changes. The only relevant question to ask is if we have competent people in place already. If the answer is no - and I don't see how it could be anything else when we have a manager hovering above the relegation line and a sporting director who has overloaded the club with old and shit players just because they're represented by his own agent - then the sooner we replace them the better. It's not like there's a lack of people out there who know how to run a club and manage a team. What we need to do is to stop backing bad horses. We will never get it right if we persist with people who have no clue just for continuity's sake.

Meatwad

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Don't really see what's the advantage of keeping Edu to let him learn from Ragnigck rather than getting someone else in.

Why do you need someone else? Rangnick knows how to both coach and DOF. Why not let him coach and mentor Edu on the DOF side of things? Why have so much upheaval? Rangnick is also 62. He would probably only want a 3 or 4 year job, so keeping Edu to learn under him would allow you to have continuity.

I don’t know a ton about Edu. I just see a lot of assumptions made about him due to Kia and very little else. I think he has been given a negative rating unfairly by Arsenal fans on the basis of very little.

i give edu a negative rating for what he's actually done. he's a corrupt stooge of kia. fuck him and his whole crew.

the big mistake was raul. gazidis should have never hired him and just hired sven. edu was hired because he was someone raul could run over and probably cut from the same unethical cloth.

so now we have scum all over the club from top to bottom. per is probably the only one with any integrity.

Wilson

Poch, from that list. No brainer, provided he's willing to come.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Don't really see what's the advantage of keeping Edu to let him learn from Ragnigck rather than getting someone else in.

Why do you need someone else? Rangnick knows how to both coach and DOF. Why not let him coach and mentor Edu on the DOF side of things? Why have so much upheaval? Rangnick is also 62. He would probably only want a 3 or 4 year job, so keeping Edu to learn under him would allow you to have continuity.

I don’t know a ton about Edu. I just see a lot of assumptions made about him due to Kia and very little else. I think he has been given a negative rating unfairly by Arsenal fans on the basis of very little.

You don't want a person in a position if the only reason not to switch him out is that it would be "much upheaval". As I said, I see no pros in keeping him. The reason you answered with is that he can learn from Ragnick. That argument could be used for literally anyone. I don't think that if we hire Ragnick we can just have anyone in Edu's place and assume he will learn.

Gazza M

Klaus wrote:
I don't think you guys should be so afraid of making changes. The only relevant question to ask is if we have competent people in place already. If the answer is no - and I don't see how it could be anything else when we have a manager hovering above the relegation line and a sporting director who has overloaded the club with old and shit players just because they're represented by his own agent - then the sooner we replace them the better. It's not like there's a lack of people out there who know how to run a club and manage a team. What we need to do is to stop backing bad horses. We will never get it right if we persist with people who have no clue just for continuity's sake.

its become apparent we need to become better at failing fast and transitioning to new leadership during the ructions of these post Wenger years. at the moment the goodwill from the cup win and the fact they're 2 ex players will probably delay what needs to happen by 6-12 months

Claudius

Gazza M wrote:
Klaus wrote:
I don't think you guys should be so afraid of making changes. The only relevant question to ask is if we have competent people in place already. If the answer is no - and I don't see how it could be anything else when we have a manager hovering above the relegation line and a sporting director who has overloaded the club with old and shit players just because they're represented by his own agent - then the sooner we replace them the better. It's not like there's a lack of people out there who know how to run a club and manage a team. What we need to do is to stop backing bad horses. We will never get it right if we persist with people who have no clue just for continuity's sake.

its become apparent we need to become better at failing fast and transitioning to new leadership during the ructions of these post Wenger years. at the moment the goodwill from the cup win and the fact they're 2 ex players will probably delay what needs to happen by 6-12 months

On failing fast...
... we need to be careful about that. That works well for your general staff. It is not a formula you want to apply at senior management level. At that level, your whole approach needs to be focused on having very clear KPIs for what you want from leadership and hiring the best possible leadership. Because what you want is stability. Constant leadership churn has multiple costs. First, their salaries go up because risk goes up. Second, they create confusion and organizational change fatigue with their various new schemes. Third and last, constant change is financially costly. (This is part of why I would recommend keeping Edu to smooth things). You want as much as possible to limit leadership change. That’s why it is critical to not take a chance here, get someone with proven team building abilities for the medium term, and even have enough time to plan for their successor.

Asterix

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/12/20/arsenal-have-reportedly-identified-potential-edu-replacement-and-its-exciting/

Link to article re van der Sar

Don Pacifico

All of those listed are pretty disappointing for different reasons. I don't see any of them building the club for a positive long-term so until such a person becomes available/feasible, I honestly don't see the point.

Gazza M

Claudius wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
its become apparent we need to become better at failing fast and transitioning to new leadership during the ructions of these post Wenger years. at the moment the goodwill from the cup win and the fact they're 2 ex players will probably delay what needs to happen by 6-12 months

On failing fast...
... we need to be careful about that. That works well for your general staff. It is not a formula you want to apply at senior management level. At that level, your whole approach needs to be focused on having very clear KPIs for what you want from leadership and hiring the best possible leadership. Because what you want is stability. Constant leadership churn has multiple costs. First, their salaries go up because risk goes up. Second, they create confusion and organizational change fatigue with their various new schemes. Third and last, constant change is financially costly. (This is part of why I would recommend keeping Edu to smooth things). You want as much as possible to limit leadership change. That’s why it is critical to not take a chance here, get someone with proven team building abilities for the medium term, and even have enough time to plan for their successor.

becoming good at failing fast inherently means being quick to sieze opportunities when they present themselves, not just changing for changes sake. basically, if there's a klopp or even pick type figure sitting around waiting for the phone to ring, make the move instead of doubling down on something that's not working

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Gotta think that someone like Wenger, an old experienced fox who wouldn't need to rely on a sporting director initially, is the only way to go if we sack both Edu and Arteta.

Manuel Pellegrini wouldn't be the worst choice around for the short term, although I doubt he can or would want to leave Betis mid-season. I'd take Favre too.

Pellegrini is past it. Favre is one of the bigger bottler I have ever seen. Shithouse manager.

Poch, Rodgers, Naglesmann is acceptable for us, doubt anyone of them want to come. Rose is highly in demand but might be interested because we are a big club.

Don't really see much press pressuring Arteta actually, he has goodwill with the media, think he will be given till feb at least

Jed

Allegri. Experience, toughness, winning mentality. He’s managed the likes of Ronaldo and Zlatan. He’d have no problems sorting this dressing room out. Would get us playing, competing and have everyone running through walls for him. The clown culture would be over the moment he steps through the door.

Anzac

I'm 'in' for Rangnick to come in as both interim manager and DoF to re-set the club initially,
and to then continue as DoF with a manager of his choosing.
If he only wants a short term appointment he can pick his replacements in both roles.

As part of that I'm not sure too many high profile managers will want to come in to effectively play 2nd fiddle to a DoF charged with rebuilding the club, as many would want to do so as manager themselves.

Regardless of the decision/s IMO the most important decision is they work together and balance each other. IF an inexperienced manager then an experienced DoF & visa versa.

As for Van der Sar and Overmars IMO they are both making themselves 'available' for the jobs at Barca with the upcoming elections.

Other managerial options for the list would include the likes of Jardim, Rose, Hassenhuttl.
Advantage with all 3 of Hassenhuttl, Rose and Nagelsmann being all 3 have worked under Rangnick at RBL or RBS.

For mind if we are to replace Arteta this season the same rule of thumb applies regrds to potential replacements as it does for incoming transfers = PL experience is crucial if you want / expect anything beyond 'new manager bounce'.

BWooley

I honestly think Allegri is massively overrated. Zlatan dragged Milan to the title when he was there and Juventus had the league to themselves by and large. Napoli would mount a challenge occasionally, but that was about it. I am quite unconvinced about him.

Anzac

BWooley wrote:
I honestly think Allegri is massively overrated. Zlatan dragged Milan to the title when he was there and Juventus had the league to themselves by and large. Napoli would mount a challenge occasionally, but that was about it. I am quite unconvinced about him.

From what I understand he is very much an 'ends justify the means' / 'results first' style manager.

Claudius

Allegri is good but I’d folks can’t stop complaining about the type of football we play even when we are winning games, then he should be excluded from the shortlist

Anzac

Alternative to the OP and list = who do we consider to be the better managers who play vibrant/energetic, front foot, pro-active, attacking football?

Nagelsmann?
Jardim?
Flick?
Bielsa?
Hassenhuttl?
Tuchel?
Conte?

Is that the style of football we want?

Clrnc

Just filter out the coaches from bigger and better clubs than us Anzac. No way they even consider us.

BWooley

My pick would be Poch for a couple of years. While he didn't win anything, he created a platform for Sp*rs who were in almost as much of a shambles then as we are in now - after being managed by Gooner Tim and AVB. If not him, then I'd go for Hassenhuttl. I do think it's time for a PL proven manager, unless we can attract someone like Nagelsmann or Rose, which is perhaps unlikely at this time.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius wrote:
I’d folks can’t stop complaining about the type foovskkmee layer

You tell'em Claude.

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