goon wrote:

Matt Law is clueless, used to make John Cross look reliable.

I'd take Aouar and Jorginho though.

For some reason, Matt Law is quite good with Chelsea related news (he even sits on some Chelsea podcasts even though he's an Aston Villa supporter) so he is quite reliable in that sense.

What has happened to David Ornstein? Has he quit being the ITK? And Romano is definitely a tap-in merchant.

Can't believe this is even a discussion. If the rumours are real we have to get him.

Matt Law is reliable for Chelsea news.

I like him way back before he joined Napoli. Klaus and other serie A watcher was raving about him too. It's still not that late to get him, but can our midfield be slower and less mobile than Xhaka Jorginho Ceballos?

Clrnc wrote:

Matt Law is reliable for Chelsea news.

I like him way back before he joined Napoli. Klaus and other serie A watcher was raving about him too. It's still not that late to get him, but can our midfield be slower and less mobile than Xhaka Jorginho Ceballos?

That is my fear. 

In isolation Jorginho is a decent player.

Coupled with Xhaka, possibly Elneny etc it is more than a nightmare.

We need to be better in 50-50 balls, in fact we need to turn 40-60 into our balls as well. We need to be on our toes and far more mobile. We need to be able to blow past the first man in the press and open up gaps. We need to close down counter attacks far quicker.

Jorginho doesn’t solve any of these issues.

Yes, Ohboy, Jorginho + Xhaka or Elneny is a regressive step. Jorginho + Partey is a progressive step. It really depends what unfolds.

Jorginho playing instead of Elneny is a progressive step.

Jorginho in our setup will be pointless. If you think Xhaka costs us goals wait until you see this paceless midget in our midfield getting bypassed and constantly skinned by smart players.

Don't understand this rumor tbh. Can't play in a 3 with the unathletic guys we already have, and him bumping ceballos out of the 343 would mean all the trouble we went to loaning him again was pointless

Gazza M wrote:

Don't understand this rumor tbh. Can't play in a 3 with the unathletic guys we already have

It's not ideal, but why not? 

I'd say the reason why 'can't' play 3 in midfield has more to do with the technical and passing consistency of the ones we have than anything else, and Jorginho and Aouar definitely raise the technical level. 

Claudius wrote:

Yes, Ohboy, Jorginho + Xhaka or Elneny is a regressive step. Jorginho + Partey is a progressive step. It really depends what unfolds.

Exactly 

If Partey comes, then by all means get Jorginho.

Qwiss! wrote:

Jorginho playing instead of Elneny is a progressive step.

This. We can debate on how much of an improvement it'll be but it's an unquestionable improvement either way.

goon wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

Don't understand this rumor tbh. Can't play in a 3 with the unathletic guys we already have

It's not ideal, but why not? 

I'd say the reason why 'can't' play 3 in midfield has more to do with the technical and passing consistency of the ones we have than anything else, and Jorginho and Aouar definitely raise the technical level. 

Im talking a 3 of xhaka, jorginho, ceballos. There's no synergy there at all, and its very immobile

Yeah he's better than el neny, but - really?

Weird.

Assuming we sign Jorginho instead of Partey and also by miracle complete Aouar, we would have truly achieved midget FC. Start them along with Nketiah Laca Saka Elneny etc

It may be Jorginho instead of Aouar. Besides Jorginho is pretty much the same height as Partey.

Clrnc wrote:

Assuming we sign Jorginho instead of Partey and also by miracle complete Aouar, we would have truly achieved midget FC. Start them along with Nketiah Laca Saka Elneny etc

Jorginho and Partey are basically the same height

They're both a good height for a midfielder - 6ft.

Ceballos is an inch off 6ft as well. Not really worried about the height of this team, particularly since Gabriel looks like an imposing presence.

We achieved midget FC in the early 2010s when Arshavin was our main striker and Vermaelen/Kosicelny were our CBs - our current team would tower over them.

Mirth wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Assuming we sign Jorginho instead of Partey and also by miracle complete Aouar, we would have truly achieved midget FC. Start them along with Nketiah Laca Saka Elneny etc

Jorginho and Partey are basically the same height

I mean Partey is about 2cm taller but optically their size differs alot. Must be Parteys broad shoulders.

Didn't realise Jorginho is that tall, don't look like 1.8m

Jorginho is very agile - helps him in tight spaces

We're builing the most static mdifield in the league, and I don't understand for what benefit. I wouldn't mind these slow/immobile plunkers if we played a possession game but that's not in the cards with Xhaka or Arteta (so far).

Xhaka/Jorginho is going to haunt us.

MistaT wrote:

We're builing the most static mdifield in the league, and I don't understand for what benefit. I wouldn't mind these slow/immobile plunkers if we played a possession game but that's not in the cards with Xhaka or Arteta (so far).

Xhaka/Jorginho is going to haunt us.

Imagine those two on a counter. With Holding behind.

Nothing wrong with a Xhaka-Jorginho midfield. Jorginho is not an immobile player. The more mouthwatering combination is Jorginho-Ceballos-Aouar though. There would be absolutely no excuse to keep insisiting on the current shithouse system if we have those player types in the squad. That's a 4-3-3 midfield.

deardevil wrote:

Would be yet another terrible signing. Looks like we've not had our fill of Chelsea rejects/veterans.

He's 28 and pretty much in his prime though, in contrast to the two 34 year olds and the 32 year old we've nicked off them previously.

too slooooow

He is too slow, but he's a lot better than most of the options we have.

Klaus wrote:

Nothing wrong with a Xhaka-Jorginho midfield.

I'm amazed you're not concerned when we're clearly missing our midfield once we get forward. Xhaka/El Neny have barely crossed the half line this year, and I don't see Jorginho providing an ability to move the team further up field. Sure, the two of them may be able to ping long balls forward but I'm tired of our only tactic (over the last few games) being a quick diagonal to Pepe/Auba/AMN. 

Any hope for a midfield of:

Jorginho -- Ceballos
------Xhaka--------

Or is Jorginho going to default to playing deeper alongside Xhaka?

-Ceballos-Jorginho-Xhaka

speedy wrote:

He is too slow, but he's a lot better than most of the options we have.

He really is and it isn't even close. The guy played 44 times for Chelsea last season and is a very good footballer on a fundamental level, if the window had just opened then I'd understand any misgivings but at this stage I doubt we'd find a better Plan B.

Even if he is slow, we need cover in midfield to rotate - what happens if Xhaka or Ceballos get injured? Willock is a lost cause and Elneny isn't fit for anything outside of the Europa league games.

Klaus wrote:

Nothing wrong with a Xhaka-Jorginho midfield. Jorginho is not an immobile player. The more mouthwatering combination is Jorginho-Ceballos-Aouar though. There would be absolutely no excuse to keep insisiting on the current shithouse system if we have those player types in the squad. That's a 4-3-3 midfield.

Looks like you may well get this type of midfield. Looks like Partey may not be coming, which explains the Jorginho news.

Klaus wrote:

Nothing wrong with a Xhaka-Jorginho midfield. Jorginho is not an immobile player. The more mouthwatering combination is Jorginho-Ceballos-Aouar though. There would be absolutely no excuse to keep insisiting on the current shithouse system if we have those player types in the squad. That's a 4-3-3 midfield.

Jorginho-Ceballos-Aouar would be a fantastic middle.

Would like to see this

———————Leno
AMN—Holding——Gabriel—Tierney
——————Jorginho
———Ceballos——Aouar
Pepe—————————Saka
——-——Aubameyang

Jorginho has that sly cheatey wanker quality too

I’ll take that midfield, Dula. Has nice qualities that will see us own possession.
Just not Jorginho/ Xhaka / El Neny combinations.

Jorginho is actually a pretty special midfielder in his own rights, very unique as a single pivot. He doesn't work well when paired with someone else, but as a single pivot his abilities to pass through the lines and his vision to spot openings is pretty brilliant.

If we really get him and surround him with runners around that can protect him and our defence it can work. Remember he single handedly changed the game at the Emirates last season when he came on. In certain sense he is a bit Pirlo esque.

Xhaka and Ceballos running around doing the dirty work with Jorginho as a pivot might work

Yeah, Clrnc. I fully respect his work as a playmaker. I think he has had a bad rep in England because English commentators do not respect playmakers. Even Pirlo would’ve been sneered at. As you say, he needs the right people around him. I’m concerned Xhaka is not that person. He feels like budget Jorginho- a narrower set of golf clubs in his bag, slower speed in passing. What he does have over Jorginho is a bit more defensive aggression. Ceballos can actually give us more movement off Jorginho and is an active defender and we can then throw Aouar on top. The other prize down the line would be Willock as he develops, with his unique Ramsey-lite properties.

Clrnc wrote:

Jorginho is actually a pretty special midfielder in his own rights, very unique as a single pivot. He doesn't work well when paired with someone else, but as a single pivot his abilities to pass through the lines and his vision to spot openings is pretty brilliant.

If we really get him and surround him with runners around that can protect him and our defence it can work. Remember he single handedly changed the game at the Emirates last season when he came on. In certain sense he is a bit Pirlo esque.

Xhaka and Ceballos running around doing the dirty work with Jorginho as a pivot might work

Aouar on the bench? You're even more defensive than Arteta!

Jorginho is a good player, but when I see his name all I can think about is this clip:

Yeah he is really slow. If people thought Xhaka is slow then they will be surprised at Jorginho. There was another clip he had a 20m headstart and still lost to the attacker. As long as you have fast defenders covering him we should be fine.

Not convinced we will sign Aouar and if we does not convinced he can do the dirty work for Jorginho without someone like Partey helping

For me the only question re Jorginho is can he beat the press?
Can he beat the first line to create time for him to advance the play quickly?
If he's not strong / quick enough physically to do a Partey, is he nimble enough with his close control to do a Cazorla / Arteta?

If he can do neither and is not able to beat the press despite his technical quality as a play-maker, then I don't see the point of adding more of the same into an already dis-functional midfield.
If he CAN beat the press then IMO he is an automatic upgrade on Xhaka.