By the way those quotes, what was he asked? What was he doing rehashing that incident at this time in our season? Genius isn't he?

It's not even just about the incident. He goes on about the complaints about him costing us points re his giving away fouls / penalties / red cards, and still plays the victim card and fails to acknowledge the game has changed in terms of what is or isn't considered acceptable, let alone the impact of VAR. It reminds me of when Wilshere said we was not going to change his playing style to avoid injuries because that's who he is.

He's either trying to say he is loyal and should be treated differently because he decided to stay, and/or it's laying the ground work by fanning the flames ahead of the summer for him to depart because of how supporters are likely to react.

Either way he strikes me as not being the sharpest tool in the shed.

Wonder if any of this is part of that Amazon documentary thing.

Kurt Eisner wrote:

Ramsey was booed for being bad after he had his fucking leg broken and came back from that, becoming one of our best players and a fan favourite for years, never once did he bitch and moan about that or flirt with other clubs, let alone Mourinho. And not even he got the kind of understanding and support some of you are giving Xhaka, who's done fuck all for us except being a mediocre at best starter for years. Guy still sees himself as 100% as the victim and blames the fans for being horrible. I'll never condone one of ours being singled out and booed by the crowd, but he's handled it about as badly as possible.

TBH I thought it was only Stoke supporters who did that when we played them Away.

And he is also so affected by social media comments. This guy will never be a good footballer this way. Mentally unstable.

Anzac wrote:
Kurt Eisner wrote:

Ramsey was booed for being bad after he had his fucking leg broken and came back from that, becoming one of our best players and a fan favourite for years, never once did he bitch and moan about that or flirt with other clubs, let alone Mourinho. And not even he got the kind of understanding and support some of you are giving Xhaka, who's done fuck all for us except being a mediocre at best starter for years. Guy still sees himself as 100% as the victim and blames the fans for being horrible. I'll never condone one of ours being singled out and booed by the crowd, but he's handled it about as badly as possible.

TBH I thought it was only Stoke supporters who did that when we played them Away.

Unfortunately not, although it didn't happen that often. Was bang out of order, just like with Eboue and just like with Xhaka, but the difference is that the latter actually did something to provoke the boos.

Seems like Arteta really does rate him pretty highly after all, baffling, him and Laca are by far the biggest problems in the starting eleven. And all that drama surrounding him somehow doesn't seem to bother The Solution, neither do the red cards and ill discipline in general. Just seems hypocritical when you compare it to the Auba, Guendouzi and Pepe situations.

There must be reasons for this treatment behind the scenes. Auba was, at his best, a 25 goal a season guarantee - you don't just bin that off on a whim. Like you all, the latitude Xhaka has been given by Arteta is confounding to me - I can only assume that, behind the scenes, he is a total legend. Otherwise, he would have gone the way of Guendouzi.

I reckon not only does Arteta have Xhaka's nudes, Xhaka also let's Arteta toss him off before games. Only way it makes sense. Xhaka mind controlling the fuck out of Arteta.

Which is fine, if Xhaka wasn't also completely essential to both Dick and Arsene before him.

RocktheCasbah wrote:

There must be reasons for this treatment behind the scenes. Auba was, at his best, a 25 goal a season guarantee - you don't just bin that off on a whim. Like you all, the latitude Xhaka has been given by Arteta is confounding to me - I can only assume that, behind the scenes, he is a total legend. Otherwise, he would have gone the way of Guendouzi.

Sure there are reasons, I just don't think it's anything we don't know. Xhaka presumably trains really well, he listens to the coach, he's serious and ambitious, stays in position and doesn't take many risks. And apparently Arteta doesn't mind the stupidity every once in a while. Xhaka also seems to be a big figure within the dressing room and he gets along with him, which is always good for a manager.

Auba on the other hand is known for being late sometimes, jokes around a lot and doesn't take football as seriously as most. He also doesn't really get involved in general play, although he did press as well as anyone on the team bar Martinelli this season. And he's not afraid to argue with the manager. Oh, also he scores goals. Lots of them. And we don't do that at Arsenal anymore.

Arteta doesn't like dissidents, he has his "non-negotiables" like presumably being on time and some other things he never bothered to specify, and those come first, performance on the pitch comes second. Giving away penalties, getting sent off and fighting with the fans just doesn't matter as much to him as players obeying what he says and buying in to his project, the culture, whatever. That's who he is as a manager. For better or worse.

To be fair, to him, that culture is the thing that had Arsenal players and media pundits a few short weeks ago. The last week has been crushingly disappointing, but it doesn't invalidate what came before it. I don't doubt Arteta could have handled Auba differently, I wish he had, but then I also wish Auba - our club captain, don't forget - had treated his position, the football club and, ultimately, the rest of the first team squad with a bit of respect.

The notion that Arteta would have willingly sacrificed 25 goals a season out of this team (which, by the way, much as I loved Auba he was not going to deliver this year) behind some kind of high minded ideal for living is ridiculous to me. As he said the other day, he needs players to jump on the boat. Auba was very clearly not on the boat. At a cost of £300k p/wk by the way.

On Xhaka, I have a bit of sympathy with Arteta actually. Particularly when it comes to what happened with the fans at that Crystal Palace game (why have they become the opponents that initiate a psychodrama every time we play them now?). Yes, it was awful that Xhaka did what he did, but it also happened two and a half years ago now and very much before Arteta's time. I manage people as part of my day job and it really, really wouldn't be fair of me to judge them based on what they did before I worked with them - or what has happened long ago. A clean slate may have been unpalatable to us, but as a manager, what else could Arteta do?

I suspect the madness that comes with Xhaka is even more frustrating for Arteta than for us, but I think, as you say, it's also something that Arteta has decided he can live with.

Although, let's not forget, had Roma not been stupid last summer, there's a fair chance we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Arteta is an inexperienced manager who has achieved fuck all in the game. He struggles with tricky characters and bins them off. It seems all you need to do is be subservient to the manager and you are untouchable. Arteta is probably so grateful to just have a group that are willing to follow his instructions that he will forgive the lack of quality. Most of our outgoing seem to be personality related rather than quality related: The Ozil-Sokratis-Mustafi-Kolasinac clique, Guendouzi, Aubameyang, AMN. That's not to say there weren't some clear quality deficiencies, but there is also a pattern there.

It's more likely that Xhaka has perfected the art of kissing Arteta's arse, rather than being exceptional in training or is carrying out some special instructions on the pitch that none of us are able to discern.

Arteta literally won the FA Cup after 7 months in charge, beating City and Chelsea at Wembley, but okay.

And are you seriously suggesting the German clique was one worth persevering with? Sokratis was the only decent professional out of the four and still not really good enough. Ozil was finished at Arsenal long before Arteta ever arrived and, still, Arteta tried to get a tune out of him. Look at what's happened at Fenerbahce, listen to what Nacho Monreal - lest we forget, a teammate of Ozil's - had to say about the geezer.

Guendouzi made his bed. Ainsley, I love Ainsley but look at the quality he has and then look at Saka and Smith Rowe, they are leagues ahead of him. Look at what's happening to him at Roma.

Do you think Arteta has got rid of these people only because they're difficult to manage, or ultimately because the quality they provide the group is not worth the problems that come with them?

I think if Auba had been on track to score 25 goals, he wouldn't have binned him, but he wasn't. I don't think that's solely Auba's fault though, our chance creation stats speak for themselves. And since he wasn't scoring, Arteta chose to put his foot down when Auba went to visit his mother. So no, he wouldn't have willingly sacrificed 25 goals, but he was awfully quick to write off a guy who has won the golden boot everywhere he played because he didn't like his personality and that he didn't completely buy in to Arteta's idea of culture and team spirit. Klopp and especially Tuchel are not known for tolerating laziness and unprofessional behaviour, but they got along fine with Auba and still speak highly of him. I know I'm making quite a few assumptions here, but with the information we do have, Arteta absolutely comes off as the kind of guy who'll put his ideals first. Anyway, this has been spoken about at length in other threads, and should probably stay there.

I agree about Arteta not punishing Xhaka for something he had done before he became the manager. It's what Xhaka has done on the pitch and what he has said to the media since then why I think he should bin him.

Shady wrote:

Arteta is an inexperienced manager who has achieved fuck all in the game. He struggles with tricky characters and bins them off. It seems all you need to do is be subservient to the manager and you are untouchable. Arteta is probably so grateful to just have a group that are willing to follow his instructions that he will forgive the lack of quality. Most of our outgoing seem to be personality related rather than quality related: The Ozil-Sokratis-Mustafi-Kolasinac clique, Guendouzi, Aubameyang, AMN. That's not to say there weren't some clear quality deficiencies, but there is also a pattern there.

Which quality deficient players are you referring to? Laca, Eddie and Elneny are three of them I guess but they're all being let go on a free as things stand. Beyond that you've got a couple of back ups and maybe Xhaka.

Luiz, Willian, Mari, Bellerin, Willock, Chambers have all been binned off too. Together with the others the only real pattern I see is a group of players who are unlikely to play a big part in any successful future.

RocktheCasbah wrote:

And are you seriously suggesting the German clique was one worth persevering with? Sokratis was the only decent professional out of the four and still not really good enough. Ozil was finished at Arsenal long before Arteta ever arrived and, still, Arteta tried to get a tune out of him. Look at what's happened at Fenerbahce, listen to what Nacho Monreal - lest we forget, a teammate of Ozil's - had to say about the geezer.

Guendouzi made his bed. Ainsley, I love Ainsley but look at the quality he has and then look at Saka and Smith Rowe, they are leagues ahead of him. Look at what's happening to him at Roma.

Do you think Arteta has got rid of these people only because they're difficult to manage, or ultimately because the quality they provide the group is not worth the problems that come with them?

Özil's a twat, Mustafi and Kola are shit, so no arguments there. They needed to go.

Guendouzi on the other hand is still a kid and a very talented one at that. He's a hothead, but I disagree that he made his bed, he comes with a few problems and it's the manager's job to try and solve that, not shame him publicly for going after an absolute prick and banish him. Him, AMN and Auba also play in positions where we desperately need quality, or a quality backup in the case of AMN, and he definitely has the potential to be at least that. That should figure into the decision making, because at the end of the day the product on the pitch is what's most important, not Arteta's non-negotiables. And since we didn't replace any of those three, it sure seems like he put the latter first.

RocktheCasbah wrote:

And are you seriously suggesting the German clique was one worth persevering with?

Disregarding everything else said - Arteta himself offered Mustafi a new contract, he clearly thought he was worth persevering with himself. That was during the summer of 2020 by the way same summer where Arteta couldn't find room for Saliba but registered Mustafi and Kolasinac who racked up a combined four league and five EL appearances between them afterwards, six months later Mustafi got his contract terminated and Kola left on loan to Schalke.

I disagree with the notion that they had to leave because of their personality (bar Özil who's proven to be a prick) but Arteta's judgment on these matters is still beyond questionable. This notion that Arteta's massive job was to get rid of all these bad apples is ignoring that a) some of the bad apples are players who were underperforming relative to their ability and can play a role for us and b) Arteta brought in a bunch of them himself and didn't want others to leave in the first place.