Let's all keep laughing at Tottenham.: Page 30 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Let's all keep laughing at Tottenham.

Klaus

USArsenal is right: when people think of Arsenal they think of what we've done in the last few years that they can relate to, and then most likely the Invincibles. They don't think about what happened in 1933 or even 1993. The majority of the people watching football today weren't even grown up in the 90s. Chelsea have been a much bigger brand globally for the last two decades and it's not even close.

In football you're only as good as in the present, and our present is a project that has so far failed to pay off. United's brand has been taking a catastrophic turn lately while City's has done the exact opposite. No one under 30 today would call United a bigger club just because they had the Ferguson years - most of them wouldn't even be able to pick Rednose out of a photo lineup. To them City is one of the top 5 clubs in the world while United are completely irrelevant. A few recall van Persie in a United shirt because that was the last time United won the league.

That's not to say history and memories don't matter: they matter to us as fans, and they're the point of watching football to me. Human beings live for and are shaped by experiences. Brands and reputations on the other hand die fast. 99.9% of all football fans today haven't got a bloody clue that Aston Villa were once considered a big club. If you ask them to name a dominant French club in the 21st century they will answer PSG, not Lyon. They remember Ian Wright as a pundit, not a goalscorer. They don't remember Martin Keown at all.

Mirth

Klaus I agree with your point if it's about rate of growth but if it's about absolute numbers then the legacy of past success is much more 'sticky' than that. Liverpool had a massive fan following in South East Asia right through their barren years. United still have the largest fan base globally - more than any other English club - it's just not going to grow at the same rate as Man City's now.

RocktheCasbah

USArsenal The world is bigger than London.

Well, I'm not sure that's true... 😆

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Surely it's only the under 30s who barely remember those years?!

Klaus

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert They're the biggest active group of football watchers. Interests fade away for most people as they get older.

Klaus

Mirth Yes, but Liverpool and United were still top clubs who played Champions League every season. It's why our reputation didn't crumble during the years in the wilderness too.

Mirth

Klaus I was going to say - the single most important factor is playing in the champions league. To go back to the earlier point, beating Madrid last season's probably done more to get us on the consciousness of the average teenager than anything else we've done recently.

awooga83

Klaus and they won a champions league during the barren years

Speedster

We were a laughing stock and we've gone to being competitive with elite clubs. This has happened only recently. People were pretending Nketiah was really good striker. We challenged for the title with him starting. It's nuts. When we get rid of the last duds and have an elite squad we'll start collecting trophies. We'd so many points of failure it's hard to believe we've been as good as we have. Elite coaching.

flobaba

QuincyAbeyie I was going to ask what your point is, but then I was like, nah, it's just Quincy Quincying about. This is why we sold you to Spartak Moscow.

QuincyAbeyie

flobaba good thing you didn't, not sure how to make it much clearer.

Qwiss

No one with the first clue about English football thinks Chelsea are a bigger club that Arsenal. Maybe some American or Asian 15 year olds on twitter and reddit think that but no grown adult who's been following football for more than a couple of years would agree.

awooga83

Qwiss arsenal are domestically a big team but the reality is in the European sense we are not our record is poor and Chelsea are bigger in that regard because of what they've achieved and the recentness of them will mean that globally that will be the perception. Yes for people invested in English football there will be acknowledgement but not much of the world and the wider fan base care about that.

flobaba

Football memories and history is short. Legacy and recency live on. The legacy of Thierry Henry and the Invincibles for example is for me the biggest thing about Arsenal. Not the near invincibles, or the invincibles who didn't win the league. But even this will fade out eventually if we don't continue to pick up trophies. How many football fans remember today that Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest used to be huge teams in Europe?

Chelsea is the first London team to win the Champions league. They did it relatively recently. They did it twice. That gives them something we don't have, and desperately desire. European pedigree. They also most recently have won the Club World Cup, which we may deride as a dumb competition, but don't tell me we all weren't hoping for a PSG win. Imagine they had lost, and we won say the FA Cup last term and a Chelsea fan comes here telling us that reaching the club world cup final and losing to PSG is a better accomplishment. We'd laugh them straight out of town.

Trophy winning is what counts as accomplishments. And the more recent the trophy, the more prestigious (participation and financial incentives) the trophy, the bigger the accomplishment. How you got there is immaterial. You're there, youre in it so win it.

Can't believe you guys are making me post all this.

Burnwinter

flobaba Can't believe you guys are making me post all this.

I'm not mate. I'm working on the assumption some organised criminal had you at gunpoint because that's the only way I'd suddenly flip and write all that about ... Chelsea?

Sicario2

USArsenal hello Sicario 3

USArsenal

Sicario2

😃 Not quite. Lol. But there are some points that are pretty obvious. I think we've made the right moves (especially if we move for Eze) so it seems like we're loading up for a real run.

flobaba

Son's last game. Class player, class person. I somehow always respected him despite his association with the scum.

James Maddison comes on, James Maddison goes off injured. Nothing new.

flobaba

Burnwinter exactly!

lorddulaarsenal

I think Spurs are going to much improved under Frank unfortunately. They won’t be at our level but they’ll be a nuisance again.

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