Youth team development: Page 96 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Claudius

This story has refused to go for a month.

I hope he calls up Omari and asks him to save a comfy seat on the Chelsea bench. They can hang out together a few years before seeing out their days at Genk or Celtic

Meatwad

since the development process with youth is so hit and miss, i prefer he make his own choices because that would show his mentality and mentality is big part of making it at the very top.

goon

I've said this before but what on earth could possess a young player seeing multiple hate end products getting game time and a staring roll in a title challenge look at this and think, 'gee, I don't fancy any of that'?

Hopefully it's just an agent doing his job for his client in negotiations, though even that at such a young age leaves a bitter taste.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I can't stand these literal children stringing clubs along these days.

QuincyAbeyie

I guess I have a different perspective on quite a few things.

One gripe that I have had with Arteta is his lack of rotation, and the response has usually been that the players he's had at his disposal haven't warranted it. Does this mean that you think Hutchinson would've been that guy here by now, unlike Pepe and Marquinhos?

The second thing, why is it that players should look at Chelsea in fear of being sent on loan? Is that the same reaction we have when we send our players on loan?

Obviously I want Nwaneri to stay and he's way too young to be be unhappy about a lack of first team football, but I also think footballers are absolutely right in doing everything they can to get the best deal possible.

Claudius

QuincyAbeyie we will be on opposite sides like hyenas and lions on this rotation debate. Let’s look at this week. He made 5 changes from the Sporting CP starting line-up to the Fulham starting lineup. Across the Bournemouth, Sporting and Fulham games, he used 19 different players in the space of a week. The evidence is pretty simple - when Arteta has high quality players available to him, he uses them. When quality is in low supply, he limits rotation. Because he believes winning the individual battles on the field is more important than just rotating for the sake of it

goon

QuincyAbeyie

That doesn’t really answer why you’d want to leave though. There’s absolutely nothing in our track record to suggest that he won’t get a chance here if he’s good enough. We on track to win the league with the youngest squad. The kid made his debut at 15, gimmick or no gimmick.

You talk about Hutchinson, if you’re wanting to leave for first team football at 18 and go to Brighton, fair play, I get it. If you’re going to Chelsea who proceed to sign 5 players in your position, many of them young, where is the benefit?

The reality is at 15 he has no business worrying about first team football. Get your head down, get the best education in the country at the best team in the country and cross that bridge when we get to it.

It’s all good and well playing devils advocate, but we both know moving to City or Chelsea would have absolutely nothing to do with playing time or giving yourself the best chance of a breakthrough.

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius Not sure if you missed the point or if you chose not to address it, but my entire point was about whether you think Hutchinson would be considered among the group worthy of getting minutes this season rather than being Marquinhos or Pepe who wasn't good enough to get minutes for a fourth-chasing side.

Whether or not Arteta is right about his rotation doesn't come close to having anything to do with whether Hutchinson made a mistake by going to Chelsea.

Claudius

None of those players should get minutes on a team trying to keep City at bay. We kept Jorginho and ESR on the bench this past weekend.

Claudius

We also need to be comfortable that we are in a different part of the cycle and you know what, it sucks to be the kids now. Saka, Martinelli, ESR etc were lucky to be the best players in the academy when the project was kicking off. If the project kicks off 2 years earlier, maybe Nelson’s career looks very different.

But we have built a strong foundation now and are top of the table. What it means is that you can’t be as good as Saka and Martinelli were 2 years ago and hope to get meaningful minutes. You need to be better. Because the team is better.

So I expect very few of these kids to make it through. Just cos it will be much much harder than it was for Saka etc. not because the current crop are worse. The main thing we need to do is ensure they get the right opportunities to shine elsewhere if space isn’t available here. We’ve done that well with Balogun, who has now put himself in the frame for either a first team spot or a big summer move to one of the Milan teams

QuincyAbeyie

Well, exactly.. Which is why I'm saying I don't understand why it's so dumb for young players to leave? It's hard to break through at such a good team as ours. Claude, are you literally not reading what I said? 😆 Your answers seem to be to something else entirely.

Claudius

Leave for Chelsea which has 32 first team players?

On the bright side, Potter does rotate more than any other manager in the league largely because of the size of his squad. Lots of mouths to feed

QuincyAbeyie

Claudius do you really not think he'll go on loan? I guess agree to disagree then, because I'm pretty sure he will. Balogun didn't go out on loan until last year and Hutchinson is two years younger than him. Yet somehow Hutchinson's situation is horrible.

QuincyAbeyie

goon If Hutchinson's going on loan both places, the only difference is the salary.

It's not about playing the devil's advocate, I'm just not convinced Chelsea's loan system is bad for the player just because it's good for the club.

What you're saying about Nwaneri I've already said.

flobaba

goon

Might be a Chelsea fan. Might be listening to advisers who are Chelsea fans. Might be real
Dumb.

Which is all saying the same thing.

RowJimmy

Chelsea is the single place it makes the least sense to go is the point. Go to Lille, go to Gladbach, go to Brentford. Somewhere they will pay attention to you. Not Chelsea. Only person who benefits from that is the agent.

Segway

RowJimmy The parents too probably. Chelsea made Andreas Christensen's parents millionaires when they signed him for their academy when he was 15. They contracted his father as a "scout" with a huge salary to circumvent the rules.

Clrnc

QuincyAbeyie I do agree with Goon in the sense so many of hale end grads broke through already compared to The shed end academy.

But then again you also made a good point. Hutchinson already have a few first team apps under Potter, which he will not get under Arteta so can't say he made the wrong decision yet. Furthermore Potter is famous for giving young players alot of chances (see Lewis Hall) even when they are not ready while Arteta for the past few years mostly prefer a settled side and doesn't rotate much at all if given a choice.

If Potter is sacked and a manager like Mourinho is appointed then the argument might change again

goon

QuincyAbeyie

I don't think there's anything wrong with using the loan system tbf, though I do think the is a cynicism about how Chelsea utilise it and have hoarded youth players over the last decade.

flobaba

I remember listening to a podcast on this very topic a couple of years back. This guy supposedly in the know said that at that age it's very rare players want to move (unless it's a big move up), and it's usually pushed by agents and family who get caught up on the promised riches. Wooing the family is a huge part of nicking academy players.

Burnwinter

Amazing prospect but age 15 is exactly the wrong age to predict if an amazing prospect will become an amazing player. The hype around this kid reminds me of Zelalem. I look forward to catching him turning out for FC Den Bosch in 2033.

About the only thing certain about Nwaneri is that he either has the wrong mentality, or the wrong people around him. God speed with those trials, Ethan, if you actually become a top player from here I'll be the first to applaud. 👏

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Segway sickening club.

Meatwad

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert
nothing sickening about that. what part of parents became millionaires is a negative?

Claudius

Clrnc, I think we have to be careful saying that Potter is a particularly youth-centric manager. Chelsea are in 10th place. They have a lot of leeway to use any of their 32 players right now. If they were in 4th place, there is no way Hutchison would even be on the team sheet. It’s the same thing you see with us. Now that we are first, there is no space for Patino and Balogun. If we were 10th, these players would be getting a shot.

To @Quintessentially’s point, it’s harder to get into Arsenal now. But it’s not clever for a kid to think Chelsea or City is a better short term bet. They’d be better asking for a transfer to Brighton, Brentford, Lille etc., where they can play at a high level for 2 seasons and guarantee a big transfer out.

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