Youth team development: Page 32 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Claudius

At the end of the day, this appears to be an inherent risk of the development model. City have Sancho. Barca have all talents we kidnapped, and so forth. As long as we don't loose too many players in this fashion.
As Klaus says, we have tried to keep him. So this isn't an Arsenal issue.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
And he also just mentioned that Leipzig has not made an official bid yet as of today.

I don't get what Romano meant by that, but maybe he doesn't understand the situation. Why would Leipzig make a bid? The rumour is about him agreeing a pre-contract with them, which he's entitled to do.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
but it's not smart letting a talent go.

It's not really got nothing to do with being smart though, you're not going to keep every young talent. They've made the kid a good offer, given him mins in the first team, trains regularly with the first team and has been promised that he's a part of our plans and actually has a clear parthway to establishing himself if he wants it.

Like I said before, if he really wants to stay, that will be enough, if not, it won't. Beyond that, there's not much more you can do.

goon

Klaus wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
And he also just mentioned that Leipzig has not made an official bid yet as of today.

I don't get what Romano meant by that, but maybe he doesn't understand the situation. Why would Leipzig make a bid? The rumour is about him agreeing a pre-contract with them, which he's entitled to do.

I think he means they haven't made a bid to Balogun, i.e. an offer (he mentions earlier in the tweet that he's received over 15 'bids' as a free agent).

Tam

Klaus wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Do we at least get £10m comp for our troubles?

It's up to the clubs to agree on a valuation I think, but a lot of the time these things get settled by something called the PFCC and they take into account a number of factors, the size of the contract we offered him being one of them. It's common for them to set fees that keep building over time when the player reaches certain goals for the new club too. I doubt we'll get more than a couple of million all in all though.

I'm sure that's domestic transfers only. I think for cross border transfers there is a rate set by FIFA for each development year, which is something like 60,000-80,000€ per year.

If he goes, he goes. I don't see what more the club could have done here. As Goon said, he's been involved and shown a pathway to first team football. There will no doubt be those who criticise the club for a failure to keep hold of him, both now and no doubt in future if he has any semblance of success. I want people like Saka, Smith Rowe and Nelson coming through who want to fight and play for the club. I'm not convinced Nelson will be here long but if someone like Balogun looks at them and thinks he doesn't have it in him to force his way into the team I'd rather we let him move on and concentrate on those who want to be here.

Klaus

Tam wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It's up to the clubs to agree on a valuation I think, but a lot of the time these things get settled by something called the PFCC and they take into account a number of factors, the size of the contract we offered him being one of them. It's common for them to set fees that keep building over time when the player reaches certain goals for the new club too. I doubt we'll get more than a couple of million all in all though.

I'm sure that's domestic transfers only. I think for cross border transfers there is a rate set by FIFA for each development year, which is something like 60,000-80,000€ per year.

Yeah you're right, PFCC is only Premier League and The Football League pyramid. I just read something saying that Arsenal were banking on Balogun going to another English club if he was going to move because it would have seen us pick up a bigger compensation than if he's going abroad.

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
but it's not smart letting a talent go.

It's not really got nothing to do with being smart though, you're not going to keep every young talent. They've made the kid a good offer, given him mins in the first team, trains regularly with the first team and has been promised that he's a part of our plans and actually has a clear parthway to establishing himself if he wants it.

Like I said before, if he really wants to stay, that will be enough, if not, it won't. Beyond that, there's not much more you can do.

His situation is basically the same as Sancho and Musiala. Other than those 2 can't really think of any other examples where they are unhappy with game time and want to leave for abroad.

I am not entirely convinced we have given him that much assurance like what we like to think in regards to minutes, especially as when he scored straight away in his first ever sub app and showed as a lot of promise, but mostly when there was opportunity to start he doesn't and when there's opportunity to sub him on early we give him the last 5 minutes etc.

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
His situation is basically the same as Sancho and Musiala. Other than those 2 can't really think of any other examples where they are unhappy with game time and want to leave for abroad.

Amaechi, Willock.

goon

Clrnc wrote:
goon wrote:
It's not really got nothing to do with being smart though, you're not going to keep every young talent. They've made the kid a good offer, given him mins in the first team, trains regularly with the first team and has been promised that he's a part of our plans and actually has a clear parthway to establishing himself if he wants it.

Like I said before, if he really wants to stay, that will be enough, if not, it won't. Beyond that, there's not much more you can do.

His situation is basically the same as Sancho and Musiala. Other than those 2 can't really think of any other examples where they are unhappy with game time and want to leave for abroad.

I am not entirely convinced we have given him that much assurance like what we like to think in regards to minutes, especially as when he scored straight away in his first ever sub app and showed as a lot of promise, but mostly when there was opportunity to start he doesn't and when there's opportunity to sub him on early we give him the last 5 minutes etc.

He's getting mins in a position where we have 3 established players, he should be greatful. In the long run, Laca will probably be gone by the summer and Auba will spend much of his time on the wing. His only real competition will be Eddie, if he doesn't fancy himself then he may as well go. Either way, I'm willing to bet extra mins or even a start would have been leveraged against the club to get an even better deal.

If you want assurances about your future just take a look at half our squad and where they come from and the opportunities they got.

goon

Klaus wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
His situation is basically the same as Sancho and Musiala. Other than those 2 can't really think of any other examples where they are unhappy with game time and want to leave for abroad.

Amaechi, Willock.

Chelsea lost Solanke and Brewster, both of whom earned Liverpool £40m odd, and then there's Lamptey too. That's life.

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Amaechi, Willock.

Chelsea lost Solanke and Brewster, both of whom earned Liverpool £40m odd, and then there's Lamptey too. That's life.

Lamptey situation is actually pretty similar to us. They decided early that James is the one they want to keep so make the decision to sell Lamptey away.

Brewster one can't be compared at all, released by Chelsea at 14. Solanke is such a blessing in disguise for them.

QuincyAbeyie

I trust Leipzig's transfer team enough to want him to stay if they want to sign him.

Sicario

goon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
but it's not smart letting a talent go.

It's not really got nothing to do with being smart though, you're not going to keep every young talent. They've made the kid a good offer, given him mins in the first team, trains regularly with the first team and has been promised that he's a part of our plans and actually has a clear parthway to establishing himself if he wants it.

Like I said before, if he really wants to stay, that will be enough, if not, it won't. Beyond that, there's not much more you can do.

Not really. There were countless times we could have played him ie Newcastle in the FA Cup yet chose not to.

Balogun is good and I admire his arrogance for someone so young. He clearly backs himself and nothing wrong with that.

If we let him go I am convinced we will regret it like Gnabry. Arteta should stop being stuck in the middle, get rid of Eddie and give Balo his mins. Eddie will never be good enough for us so why waste time when you have a kid twice as talented one foot in the exit door. It’s simple really.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Really annoyed at this Balogun business. We finally produce a striker that really looks like he could have everything needed to succeed and we can't keep him.

goon

I still think he'll end up staying, but who knows.

I must admit I'd be a lot more comfortable if Raul was still here. He'd have just slipped his agent £10m under the table and all would be golden.

Claudius

Upon further reflection, I think it will be fine.
It’s annoying but that’s life. This whole business has a ton of risk. As a club you need to do the best you can to come out on the right side of this risk. And by most measures, on the kids, we have done well. We have a big academy. We recruit well both locally and abroad, and we offer early access to the first team for outstanding talents. Once in a while some people will slip through. This actually feels like Fabregas leaving Barcelona because there’s too much competition amongst his peers. Even though it’s sad, it’s also an endorsement of the work Wenger, Jonker and Mertesacker have done. This is definitely not like the mismanagement of kiss’s careers 4 or 5 years ago when we were losing lots of good kids without a plan

banduan

Looks like both Doozy and Mavs are having a good loan spell?

Wonder if having kids will have drilled some sense into Doozy.

Coombs

Having kids?

banduan

Well not many kids I guess, having a child. Wifey's preggers.

Don't ask me why you'd want to get married at 21.

Coombs

Oh you meant literally. Thought it was a euphemism.

Footballers are idiots.

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