Youth team development: Page 31 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Youth team development

Tam

Claudius wrote:
I do hope we trade him though. We can’t afford to have 3 aging forwards. And Laca was already on big money. Turning Laca and Xhaka into Edouard and Bissouma will refresh the squad and protect value

He's not had a great season so far, though Celtic have been very poor. He's now into the last 18 months of his contract and so his value has seemingly dropped. I would hope that we could have brought in someone more experienced and ready for the Premier League than Edouard, and if it is to be him, I'd have hoped to have seen a stronger season from someone looking to make a step up. It looks like he's coasting and biding his time until a transfer. I want to see more hunger from someone coming in.

As an aside he's also currently isolating because Celtic chose to go on a break to Dubai, where an injured player contracted COVID and resulted in 13 players, the manager and assistant manager having to isolate for 10 days. As far as I know they're the only 'top level' club in the UK to have gone abroad on a normal mid-season break. An absolutely crazy decision in the current climate.

goon

Klaus wrote:
goon wrote:
Honestly if anyone thinks it's over game time I've got a bridge to sell you.

The 60K we reportedly offered were probably performance-based too, if true.

He'll get a nice sign-on bonus from his new club since he's free in the summer, the agent will make his money, and then he'll move him again in a few years and make more cash.

Pretty much, he's got like 15 clubs in for him.

Reading between the lines, I reckon it went something like this:

Arsenal tried opening contract talks, Balogun/agent not interested - Arsenal freeze him out, talk about him leaving in the summer surface.

Suddenly with less than 12 months left it turns out he wants to stay (funny that) and negotiations begin and he's now training with the first team and getting some mins.

Arsenal make a reasonable offer for a player of his profile, but agent is now able to point to lucrative sign on fees, wages and promise of first team mins elsewhere. Match it or he's off.

It's textbook. If he really wants to stay or if Arsenal are desperate enough to keep him, he'll stay. Otherwise, he's off.

Everything else is just fluff. If he was unhappy about mins and wanted playing time there wouldn't be any negotiations.

Ricky1985

jones wrote:
That's bollocks Ricky and you know it. I agree regarding Balogun but why slander Lacazette for no reason especially now he's doing well again, he looked piss poor for a long time but never because he was lazy.

He tries hard on the pitch, for sure. But he looks leaner than he has in a long while and doesn't seem to be dead after an hour. I honestly believe he's just not a very good trainer, and needs to be pushed in order to stay in top condition. And let's be honest, he wouldn't be the first footballer to put that extra effort and focus in when that big deal is winding down.

Claudius

Tam wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I do hope we trade him though. We can’t afford to have 3 aging forwards. And Laca was already on big money. Turning Laca and Xhaka into Edouard and Bissouma will refresh the squad and protect value

He's not had a great season so far, though Celtic have been very poor. He's now into the last 18 months of his contract and so his value has seemingly dropped. I would hope that we could have brought in someone more experienced and ready for the Premier League than Edouard, and if it is to be him, I'd have hoped to have seen a stronger season from someone looking to make a step up. It looks like he's coasting and biding his time until a transfer. I want to see more hunger from someone coming in.

As an aside he's also currently isolating because Celtic chose to go on a break to Dubai, where an injured player contracted COVID and resulted in 13 players, the manager and assistant manager having to isolate for 10 days. As far as I know they're the only 'top level' club in the UK to have gone abroad on a normal mid-season break. An absolutely crazy decision in the current climate.

Edouard started really slowly. I was tracking him. But he had a decent last few games. So he hasn't fallen off. Scored against Milan, Hamilton and Dundee. So he's back in business. He is good at playing the integrator role up top.

My top request would be Isak. Scored on the weekend. But he'd be too dear.

Klaus

Isak will be world class one day if he gets to develop, but it's no good buying him now. He's not ready and we'd set him back just like Dortmund did. He's also had a difficult season so far. Let someone else bring him into focus. He'll be there in a few years when we have to splash big on an Auba replacement.

Claudius

Don’t you think we have to take the risk now? Otherwise, we will be priced out if he finds himself. Look at the prices that Werner, Havertz, etc went for in a down market last year. We could be punished down the line. If we still have Aubameyang and Saka, we can carry Isak and ESR. That would be an awesome foursome.

Klaus

No, I've followed him since he was 16 and I'm convinced that we'd waste our money, and him to boot. He has to play regularly to take the next step. I don't think buying him and farming him out on loan is any good either. He needs club stability.

He would probably be ready by now if Dortmund hadn't mistreated him like they did. They effectively wasted three years of his career. The one positive thing being that he's still so young, but if he makes another move like that I don't think he'll recover, and he seems to be aware of it too. I doubt he'd move even if we came for him. He turned down a lot of big clubs when he moved to Real Sociedad.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Isak will be world class one day if he gets to develop, but it's no good buying him now. He's not ready and we'd set him back just like Dortmund did. He's also had a difficult season so far. Let someone else bring him into focus. He'll be there in a few years when we have to splash big on an Auba replacement.

He has talent but don't seem ready to kick on beyond that for some reason. And not sure what people see in Edouard.

Talking about Isak, Odegaard is out of favour again at Madrid. He is probably the smartest transfer we could make.

Klaus

Is buying Ødegaard for a wad of cash really a smarter move than just trusting Smith-Rowe? I don't really see it unless he's available for cheap.

Claudius

Klaus, thanks for the Isak perspectives. Worth following.

Odegaard is probably not out favour. He got injured and the old men took the team on a run. Vasquez and Asensio have also been doing really well. The Brazilian boys are probably in bigger trouble. If Odegaard did become available though, it’s a no-brainer

Coombs

ESR isn't superhuman. We need more like him. A squad with 50 million mediocre CBs and CMs and only one proper attacking midfielder is just as absurd as it sounds.

Claudius

Coombs wrote:
ESR isn't superhuman. We need more like him. A squad with 50 million mediocre CBs and CMs and only one proper attacking midfielder is just as absurd as it sounds.

Having 3 like ESR, Odegaard and Saka is essential. We can rotate them. And they can play together on occasion. That’s how the ball sticks. Saka and ESR are kids. They will need to rest. And we should have top top quality in when they are not playing. There are probably 100-110 games per year at those two positions. I’d rather have 3 high quality players who can cover them and also plug in elsewhere as necessary

Clrnc

Football insiders is reporting that Balogun has agreed to join Leipizig.

Claudius

Clrnc wrote:
Football insiders is reporting that Balogun has agreed to join Leipizig.

Fuck Leipzig. They’re going to sell him back to Liverpool for £40m. Do we at least get £10m comp for our troubles?

Klaus

Seems like the site has a bit dodgy reputation, but multiple places have reported it today. Not sure if they're all from the same source.

Claudius wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Football insiders is reporting that Balogun has agreed to join Leipizig.

Fuck Leipzig. They’re going to sell him back to Liverpool for £40m.

How are you so sure he's going to turn into that sort of player? How much have you seen of him?

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
Seems like the site has a bit dodgy reputation, but multiple places have reported it today. Not sure if they're all from the same source.

Claudius wrote:
Fuck Leipzig. They’re going to sell him back to Liverpool for £40m.

How are you so sure he's going to turn into that sort of player? How much have you seen of him?

Strikers is notoriously hard to predict their development curve. Plenty of brilliant youth strikers has failed by mid 20s.

I liked what I have seen of Balogun though, much more than I have seen of Nketiah at the same stage. He could become the next Lukaku or Coulibaly easily, but it's not smart letting a talent go.

Klaus

Claudius wrote:
Do we at least get £10m comp for our troubles?

It's up to the clubs to agree on a valuation I think, but a lot of the time these things get settled by something called the PFCC and they take into account a number of factors, the size of the contract we offered him being one of them. It's common for them to set fees that keep building over time when the player reaches certain goals for the new club too. I doubt we'll get more than a couple of million all in all though.

Claudius

Klaus wrote:
Seems like the site has a bit dodgy reputation, but multiple places have reported it today. Not sure if they're all from the same source.

Claudius wrote:
Fuck Leipzig. They’re going to sell him back to Liverpool for £40m.

How are you so sure he's going to turn into that sort of player? How much have you seen of him?

As with all these guys, nobody really knows. All I know is in the 4 sub appearances he had this season, he came on, looked strong and skilful and racked up 2 goals and an assist in his limited time. Also showed good awareness and instinct, I remember one volley of a ball that came over his shoulder from right flank, for example

Klaus

Clrnc wrote:
Strikers is notoriously hard to predict their development curve. Plenty of brilliant youth strikers has failed by mid 20s.

Yeah, like Lupoli. And plenty of them like Harry Kane, Jamie Vardy and Dominic Calvert-Lewin weren't rated at youth level but came into focus later.

Clrnc wrote:
I liked what I have seen of Balogun though, much more than I have seen of Nketiah at the same stage. He could become the next Lukaku or Coulibaly easily, but it's not smart letting a talent go.

True, but we're not letting him go. We've tried to get him to sign but he doesn't want to. That's just how it goes sometimes.

Clrnc

Klaus wrote:
True, but we're not letting him go. We've tried to get him to sign but he doesn't want to. That's just how it goes sometimes.

Romano is continuing his story about Balogun wanting to stay but is unhappy with game time.

And he also just mentioned that Leipzig has not made an official bid yet as of today.

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